I'd salt him until he dries up and blows away.
- mayorofangrytown

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he had mold growing on him right now

I don't really care where he was drafted one day at age 18. Kings reached on other big d men too. I guess you would call Colten Teubert, years after the draft, a top prospect then too, picked at 13? Or Thomas Hickey? If all goes according to plan, Morin should be in the AHL at age 22. Forbort wasn't in until age 24, after spending 3 years in college and 3 years in the AHL. I doubt LA purposefully did that if they knew he could help. More likely scenario was they didn't believe he was ready, or feared the worst. That they had Cup aspirations probably played a role too, which we don't have.

Personally, I have zero issue with a half year-year in the AHL for a top prospect, should they be eligible, if they need to adjust to the pro game. Some don't need to. I said I wouldn't mind Myers starting there. But it seems almost laughable now that we seriously feared Provorov and Konecny, more so the latter, might not even make the team, as they not only had to outplay current roster players, but they had to hit some arbitrary moving goal post right up until the last day of camp. They did, but it was cold sweats the entire time. Now, if Sanheim is in the AHL next year, then I'm really irritated. Morin too. People trot out the BS "slow cook" argument. If a player is ready, put them in. It's that simple to me. Some aren't ready.
- Mononoke

Hextall showed this year that if a young player is ready, then they will play in the NHL. He's even said recently that the young players are coming.

Personally, I have zero issue with a half year-year in the AHL for a top prospect, should they be eligible, if they need to adjust to the pro game. Some don't need to. I said I wouldn't mind Myers starting there. But it seems almost laughable now that we seriously feared Provorov and Konecny, more so the latter, might not even make the team, as they not only had to outplay current roster players, but they had to hit some arbitrary moving goal post right up until the last day of camp. They did, but it was cold sweats the entire time. Now, if Sanheim is in the AHL next year, then I'm really irritated. Morin too. People trot out the BS "slow cook" argument. If a player is ready, put them in. It's that simple to me. Some aren't ready.
- Mononoke

I always thought the concern over Provorov not making the team was laughable. He was an exceptional, physcially mature prospect with no durability issues. Konecny was closer to 50/50 due to his size and injury history, but it was clear early in camp that he was gonna make it.

I fully expect two D prospects to make the team to start 17-18, I just don't know which two.

Do you think Boyd Gordon needs any more seasoning?
- Mononoke

I think this playoff experience will be valuable for him...He hasn't had much in his career

if you think only one out of four will realistically bust, you are a charter member of team positive my friend.
- stayinthefnnet

I'm currently so on team negative that I rarely post here anymore.

I also think there's every reason to believe that we'll hit on all four. There's nothing currently going on with any of the four prospects on D that indicate any slide. Even Haag, who hasn't dazzled in the AHL, is looking like he's going to be a solid defender at the next level.

I've always been wary of Sanheim's ability to play D having seen him the most, but he has NHL talent. You might have to live with his spotty play on the backend. Not sure the team can support Ghost and Sanheim if they both play the same style. I haven't seen many Phantoms games this season but I plan to start now. Hopefully he's grown in his D responsibilities.

I have been trying to think of what they would have learned in those 20-25 games that didn't happen anyway.
Let's examine what they might have learned:
Lethargic starts that lead to clawing and scratching for points.
Third period collapses.
Missing the net via watching their peers.
and sucking at 5-3 man advantages.
- Konalover

If you think that 4-20 games in the AHL playoffs (because we don't know) are the end all be all, then you can't turn your nose at a guaranteed 20-25 NHL games, in most likely equal minutes they'd see in the AHL, against the best players in the world. I don't even really care that they're in the AHL still, but that's not an argument.

People who don't watch the Phantoms probably think they're used like we use Provorov. They're not. There's no available minutes data, but I imagine they're used in 2nd/3rd pair minutes depending on game situation. Normal 2nd/3rd minutes, not 12 minutes, but they're not playing 25 minutes a game. Now, here's what they get to do: watch TJ Brennan never leave the ice and do dumb things in a Berube-like system that has no resemblance to the NHL team, alongside a bunch of forwards usually out of position cherry picking. Their development is their own; it's not contingent on others, to an extent. The NHL team has been a mess, and yet there Provorov is developing without a dirt mark on him. And yet there Sanheim is rapidly developing while soaking in TJ Brennan's diarrhea.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he had mold growing on him right now
- Mononoke

We should scrape that and see if we can find a cure for whatever he is. He may be only mildly irritating but who wants to walk around all year with a rash?

If you think that 4-20 games in the AHL playoffs (because we don't know) are the end all be all, then you can't turn your nose at a guaranteed 20-25 NHL games, in most likely equal minutes they'd see in the AHL, against the best players in the world. I don't even really care that they're in the AHL still, but that's not an argument.

People who don't watch the Phantoms probably think they're used like we use Provorov. They're not. There's no available minutes data, but I imagine they're used in 2nd/3rd pair minutes depending on game situation. Normal 2nd/3rd minutes, not 12 minutes, but they're not playing 25 minutes a game. Now, here's what they get to do: watch TJ Brennan never leave the ice and do dumb things in a Berube-like system that has no resemblance to the NHL team, alongside a bunch of forwards usually out of position cherry picking. Their development is their own; it's not contingent on others. The NHL team has been a mess, and yet there Provorov is developing without a dirt mark on him. And yet there Sanheim is rapidly developing while soaking in TJ Brennan's diarrhea.
- Mononoke

We should scrape that and see if we can find a cure for whatever he is. He may be only mildly irritating but who wants to walk around all year with a rash?
- mayorofangrytown

I have a hunch he has scurvy too

So far, Provorov has been as advertised. I don't see a regression in his game because his game is built on excelling at the fundamentals, which is more mental than physical. Ghost had a dynamite start to his career and had a rough first 2/3 of his season. This was to be expected (maybe not to the exact extent) because his game is built on smart risk taking and offensive production.

So right now, we're basically 2-for-2 on our top D prospect hitting. Right now, I see 4 "big" prospects left: Morin, Sanheim, Myers, and Hagg. There are others, but let's keep it to these 4. Do you guys think that all 4 of them (or even 3) will hit as well? I don't. We joke about it, but at least one will bust. I'm not saying trade them all, but it's a crazy long shot to think that all 4 will be joining Provorov and Ghost as full-time NHLers.

Just a nice, depressing thought for you. Consider this my application for Team Negative.
- jmatchett383

I think you are being a little bit over the top with the doom and gloom. Yes, its really tough to make it in the NHL. Yes, we are 2/2 right now and the odds are against us, but each and every case is on an individual basis.

Lets look at the remaining 4.

Sanheim is a virtual lock to not only make it to the NHL, but to succeed once there. I personally think on the low end we are looking at a player like Meszaros.

The other 3 are a little bit harder to project, but Morin is also a virtual lock sheerly because of his ability to skate, his size, and his strength. They are being super cautious with him, but I think its because they are so high on him still. He has the real ability to be a top 4 shut down d-man. There is a bust possibility with him more so the others, in that he doesnt excel with the puck on his stick, but it isnt a weakness perse either.

Hagg has bottom 4 potential. I think he is going to be a very steady is not spectacular player. I could see him being a good #5.

Meyers is the biggest question mark, but has top end potential. He (like Sanheim) has is on of those highly coveted 5-S players. He needs to show that he is capable of staying healthy (his biggest issue as a younger player) to really reach that full potential. It would be a huge surprise if he didnt make it to the NHL playing in a top 4 role.

I honestly believe we will see this group with the Flyers in 2 years.

Provy-Sanheim
Meyers-Morin (HUGE)
Hagg-Ghost

I really dont think the odds of them being busts are all that large... especially considering how they have advanced to date.

I'm currently so on team negative that I rarely post here anymore.

I also think there's every reason to believe that we'll hit on all four. There's nothing currently going on with any of the four prospects on D that indicate any slide. Even Haag, who hasn't dazzled in the AHL, is looking like he's going to be a solid defender at the next level.

I've always been wary of Sanheim's ability to play D having seen him the most, but he has NHL talent. You might have to live with his spotty play on the backend. Not sure the team can support Ghost and Sanheim if they both play the same style. I haven't seen many Phantoms games this season but I plan to start now. Hopefully he's grown in his D responsibilities.
- mayorofangrytown

I dont know how much of Sanheim you have actually seen this year (ive seen about 10 games), but he does so many little things well in his own end, and without the puck. I think the knock on his defensive game is severely overblown.

I am sure the word bust is all relative as well. Even if Sanheim ends up as Meszaros, lots of people would (rightfully so) consider that a bust. I don't think it means the odds suggest one of these guys won't be an NHL player...I think we would already see signs of that

I'm currently so on team negative that I rarely post here anymore.

I also think there's every reason to believe that we'll hit on all four. There's nothing currently going on with any of the four prospects on D that indicate any slide. Even Haag, who hasn't dazzled in the AHL, is looking like he's going to be a solid defender at the next level.

I've always been wary of Sanheim's ability to play D having seen him the most, but he has NHL talent. You might have to live with his spotty play on the backend. Not sure the team can support Ghost and Sanheim if they both play the same style. I haven't seen many Phantoms games this season but I plan to start now. Hopefully he's grown in his D responsibilities.
- mayorofangrytown

you guys would know the individual ins and outs of each of them much more than i would. admittedly from what i've seen from sanheim he seems to be an NHL guy, even if there is some overlap between him and ghost. I just think the odds of hitting on the entirety of any group of prospects 1-4 is pretty slim.

Morin is the one that would worry me the most. although the high ceiling high reward dynamic with him was known from the start.

I am sure the word bust is all relative as well. Even if Sanheim ends up as Meszaros, lots of people would (rightfully so) consider that a bust. I don't think it means the odds suggest one of these guys won't be an NHL player...I think we would already see signs of that
- YuenglingJagr

You can't be a bust if you play 600+ NHL games and have 200+ NHL points as a dman. An injury-riddled disappointment in his late 20s perhaps, but not a bust.

Teubert was a bust.

You can't be a bust if you play 600+ NHL games and have 200+ NHL points as a dman. An injury-riddled disappointment in his late 20s perhaps, but not a bust.

Teubert was a bust.
- Feanor

Boyd Gordon was not a bust

you guys would know the individual ins and outs of each of them much more than i would. admittedly from what i've seen from sanheim he seems to be an NHL guy, even if there is some overlap between him and ghost. I just think the odds of hitting on the entirety of any group of prospects 1-4 is pretty slim.

Morin is the one that would worry me the most. although the high ceiling high reward dynamic with him was known from the start.
- stayinthefnnet

I'm not as worried as some about things like "ceiling" and all that. The Flyers don't need to have every one of these guys be stars. What they really, really need.. beyond all else, is a legitimate Top Pair on D. If they get 2 guys who can be all situations, Top of the Corps D men, they'll have gone a long ways in fixing what ails this team.

I think Provy is going to be one half of that pair. If any of these other kids can perform at a reasonable facsimile of that level, then the Flyers are in good shape, and the rest of the prospects need merely be better than whoever it is that they replace in the D corps.

So, if Morin ends up being a 5/6 guy, thats ok, as long as he actually belongs in the NHL and can hold up his end of his responsibilities, and they have a top pair in there somewhere.

I'm not as worried as some about things like "ceiling" and all that. The Flyers don't need to have every one of these guys be stars. What they really, really need.. beyond all else, is a legitimate Top Pair on D. If they get 2 guys who can be all situations, Top of the Corps D men, they'll have gone a long ways in fixing what ails this team.

I think Provy is going to be one half of that pair. If any of these other kids can perform at a reasonable facsimile of that level, then the Flyers are in good shape, and the rest of the prospects need merely be better than whoever it is that they replace in the D corps.

So, if Morin ends up being a 5/6 guy, thats ok, as long as he actually belongs in the NHL and can hold up his end of his responsibilities, and they have a top pair in there somewhere.
- Doc_Sarcasm

i know its early but its hard to view provorov as anything but a home run.

So, if Morin ends up being a 5/6 guy, thats ok, as long as he actually belongs in the NHL and can hold up his end of his responsibilities, and they have a top pair in there somewhere.
- Doc_Sarcasm

But you rather have Sam Moron-in or Max Dumbi or Alex "WinBerg"? I think choice obvious!





(nailed it)

i know its early but its hard to view provorov as anything but a home run.
- stayinthefnnet

If that ends up being the case, then what the Flyers need at a minimum, is one other guy who really belongs on that top pair and won't struggle like any of the guys they've forced into top pairing minutes over the last few seasons.

One of the reasons that MacDonald (among others) has looked so bad so frequently is that he is simply being asked to do things that are beyond his capabilities. This isnt meant as a slam at him, its simpy the reality that SOMEONE on that D corp is going to get exposed every night, because the Flyers don't have a legit top pair right now.

Boyd Gordon was not a bust
- YuenglingJagr

Meszaros played higher in the lineup and was more productive than Gordon.

But if Gordon busted because he ended up as career 4th liner after being picked in the 2nd half of the 1st round, I'm not sure what we're supposed to call players like Jakub Koreis.

Boyd Gordon was not a bust
- YuenglingJagr

I'm currently watching Part 7/30 of his career face-off highlights right now. I'm beginning to understand.

Also, you know who drafted Boyd? Newly minted Las Vegas Golden Knights GM, George McPhee. Just saying. Boyd Gordon can spend his days at Treasure Island and his nights in the press box. Sounds like the life.

Meszaros played higher in the lineup and was more productive than Gordon.

But if Gordon busted because he ended up as career 4th liner after being picked in the 2nd half of the 1st round, I'm not sure what we're supposed to call players like Jakub Koreis.
- Feanor

I'm not sure where the line is drawn for bust in the NHL, but anyone who has played more than 700 games in the NHL should probably be exempt from being called one.

Meszaros played higher in the lineup and was more productive than Gordon.

But if Gordon busted because he ended up as career 4th liner after being picked in the 2nd half of the 1st round, I'm not sure what we're supposed to call players like Jakub Koreis.
- Feanor

like i said...it is all relative. I am sure if all the flyers first round picks turned out to be boyd gordon the word bust would get tossed around. There is value in having a guy develop into a 4th liner in the NHL for several years, but I dont think teams pick players in the first round because they think they will develop into that

Let it be known that 657 games Bobby Orr is more of a bust than 1062 games Nick Schultz

I dont know how much of Sanheim you have actually seen this year (ive seen about 10 games), but he does so many little things well in his own end, and without the puck. I think the knock on his defensive game is severely overblown.
- jak521

Like I said, I haven't. The few phantoms games I saw were early and he barely saw the ice.

However, I saw him play regularly for two seasons in Calgary. He defensive deficiencies were NOT overblown with the Hitmen. I can tell you that when he didn't have the puck he was an adventure.