They can't work on these things in the NHL?
- PhillySportsGuy

How did it work for Edmonton?

Buffalo?


Really The only reason I see a difference in Edmonton is they were able to get a generational talent in McDavid.

Hextall is following a more Detroit/LA type of path. He isn't using the NHL to develop players. He wants them to be ready to go when they are finally with the big club.

He's minor league coach - you're going to believe him?


;-)
- Scoob

Just found it funny. You can tell what my thoughts are on the subject :D

How did it work for Edmonton?

Buffalo?


Really The only reason I see a difference in Edmonton is they were able to get a generational talent in McDavid.

Hextall is following a more Detroit/LA type of path. He isn't using the NHL to develop players. He wants them to be ready to go when they are finally with the big club.
- J35Bacher

Did getting McDavid suddenly make it a winning culture?

I disagree. Giving them an idea of what to expect next season will help them with their offseason workouts and leave them better prepared for camp next year.
- PhillySportsGuy

There are plenty of experienced people and player development professionals who can tell them how they can prepare for next season. None of them are guaranteed to be NHL players next season.

Damn strong, too. Can bench press 300 lbs.
- bmeltzer

That kid sounds like a super strong fire hydrant.

Hello.

You do get better by playing against better competition. And at some point, you do need to throw them in the deep end. Hextall didn't seem to think that this was the time to do it. He could be right, could be wrong.

I don't think AHL playoff games, skill-level wise, are as skilled as NHL regular season games. But I do think the raised stakes atmosphere of the playoffs make for more on-par games as far as competitive level goes.

I think Hextall treated this year sort of like last year: let the players play in the AHL and make a push for a playoff spot in the NHL. Ghost was an unexpected surprise last year, and there's no guarantee that Morin or Sanheim would do likewise.

I do expect to see at least 1 of Morin, Sanheim, or Hagg on the team next year along with Ghost and Provorov. Probably two if Myers starts in the AHL. To me, this speaks of a man who looks the future without completely sacrificing the present.

Personally, I don't want to go back to the early 90s just so that MAYBE we'll be better in 5 years.
- jmatchett383

I guess I've just completely changed my tune on development. I used to be very much in favor of lots of development time in Juniors and the AHL, but I just don't think that's the right course of action. If you believe a young player can be a major contributor down the road and he's capable of holding his own in the NHL, then he should stay with the NHL team. Especially, when the guy's ELC has already started.

Even if the player is only logging 12 minutes per game, he's still getting NHL level coaching and training. He's also getting to go up against NHL players in practice everyday.

I would have traded Del Zotto and would happily sit MacDonald to get the young guys minutes. That's just me though. A guy who cares about the future rather than the present.
- PhillySportsGuy

Your saying that with the assumption that you think calling them up for a cup of coffee is the best thing for them, and that keeping them in the AHL with the Phantoms isn't the best thing, and is only caring for the present and not the future. In my opinion you're wrong about that.

There are plenty of experienced people and player development professionals who can tell them how they can prepare for next season. None of them are guaranteed to be NHL players next season.
- MJL

Phantoms will be stacked to an absurd degree on D if none of them make the Flyers.

Brennan-Hagg
Sanheim-Myers
Morin-Friedman
O'Neill-Willcox

I think he cares about the present as much as he cares about the future, which makes it hard to rebuild
- PhillySportsGuy

That's a false narrative that really isn't supported by the available evidence.

Phantoms will be stacked to an absurd degree on D if none of them make the Flyers.

Brennan-Hagg
Sanheim-Myers
Morin-Friedman
O'Neill-Willcox
- Feanor

I think 2 of them make the jump next year. Maybe not at the beginning of the year, but by the 1/3 mark.

Your right that would have been smart. That way they could have assured ourselves another year of no playoffs for our A team. That is a great way to build a winning mentality with the kids.
You win drunk GM of the day!
Sorry BiggE
- Konalover

How did it work for Edmonton?

Buffalo?


Really The only reason I see a difference in Edmonton is they were able to get a generational talent in McDavid.

Hextall is following a more Detroit/LA type of path. He isn't using the NHL to develop players. He wants them to be ready to go when they are finally with the big club.
- J35Bacher

Yeah, Doughty and Kopitar played for some real juggernauts in the early seasons in LA.

My philosophy is that the cream rises to the top. If a player is good, they'll develop into a good player. If a player is bad, then he won't develop into a good player.


I'm honestly having a hard time thinking of which young players, who are the best in the league now, joined great teams. I know Bergeron joined a good team at age 18 then began getting a lot more minutes and the team stunk for a while.


Basically, I don't see any correlation between delaying development in the NHL and success.


Now, if you feel the current team has a bad culture and you don't want the young guys around that, then I totally understand. However, in that case, you should probably fire the coach.

Maybe this will help you understand.
http://www.mcall.com/spor...l-ups-20170314-story.html
- Konalover

That's a false narrative that really isn't supported by the available evidence.
- MJL

The available evidence suggests that Hextall places a lot of stock in getting the young players on this team NHL-playoff experience. While he is still thinking about the future with this mindset, he overvalues it IMO.

I think this is all a little silly. It's like Democrats and Republicans. I don't think anyone is saying that the AHL kills development, and I don't think anyone is saying that players need to be coddled, but that's how you guys seem to be taking it, whichever side you don't agree on.

Right now, I don't think there's any surefire way to maximize a player's development. There are players like Provorov who are too good for any league other than the NHL. Those players are few and far between, because most have flaws in their game.

The general thinking is that the AHL is a good league that offers very good pro competition where players can get accilimated to the pro game while working on their deficiencies so that, when they get to the NHL, they are much more polished. This also allows for more "complete" (yet sometimes less skilled) players to play on the NHL squad to let them remain fairly competitive.

The newer style of thinking is to let these players work out the kinks at the highest level, the NHL. However, the working out of these kinks will have severe growing pains and, while it may translate to more skill in the lineup, the team will most likely suffer in the short term as these players work on their flaws.

Neither way is always right. Some players need more time than others to work on their game, and some players thrive with more or less lower-level instruction. Disagreeing with one way or the other does not mean someone is attacking you personally.

The available evidence suggests that Hextall places a lot of stock in getting the young players on this team NHL-playoff experience. While he is still thinking about the future with this mindset, he overvalues this IMO.
- JFlyers00

The Flyers would have to make the playoffs for that to be possible. Hextall is process oriented, and he has a plan in place. He's not going to alter that plan because some fans want to see the shiny new toys. Having some of these kids go through a playoff run in the AHL is an important step in that process, and a few games in the NHL isn't going to change much.

Yeah, Doughty and Kopitar played for some real juggernauts in the early seasons in LA.

My philosophy is that the cream rises to the top. If a player is good, they'll develop into a good player. If a player is bad, then he won't develop into a good player.


I'm honestly having a hard time thinking of which young players, who are the best in the league now, joined great teams. I know Bergeron joined a good team at age 18 then began getting a lot more minutes and the team stunk for a while.


Basically, I don't see any correlation between delaying development in the NHL and success.


Now, if you feel the current team has a bad culture and you don't want the young guys around that, then I totally understand. However, in that case, you should probably fire the coach.
- PhillySportsGuy

So Hextall is the only one to practice being patient with his prospects?

If it was better for these guys to just develop in the NHL why did AZ send Strome back to juniors. Carolina should just have Hayden Fleury in the NHL then.

My point is there is no exact science. But I think most GM's will error on the side of caution. I think Hextall and the hockey people know what is best for their guys. Is it really killing them playing in the AHL right now?

Phantoms will be stacked to an absurd degree on D if none of them make the Flyers.

Brennan-Hagg
Sanheim-Myers
Morin-Friedman
O'Neill-Willcox
- Feanor

I'm hoping Hagg and Morin are ready out of camp and at some point Sanheim.

I think this is all a little silly. It's like Democrats and Republicans. I don't think anyone is saying that the AHL kills development, and I don't think anyone is saying that players need to be coddled, but that's how you guys seem to be taking it, whichever side you don't agree on.

Right now, I don't think there's any surefire way to maximize a player's development. There are players like Provorov who are too good for any league other than the NHL. Those players are few and far between, because most have flaws in their game.

The general thinking is that the AHL is a good league that offers very good pro competition where players can get accilimated to the pro game while working on their deficiencies so that, when they get to the NHL, they are much more polished. This also allows for more "complete" (yet sometimes less skilled) players to play on the NHL squad to let them remain fairly competitive.

The newer style of thinking is to let these players work out the kinks at the highest level, the NHL. However, the working out of these kinks will have severe growing pains and, while it may translate to more skill in the lineup, the team will most likely suffer in the short term as these players work on their flaws.

Neither way is always right. Some players need more time than others to work on their game, and some players thrive with more or less lower-level instruction. Disagreeing with one way or the other does not mean someone is attacking you personally.
- jmatchett383

It's almost as if you need to take each player on a case by case basis and see if they are ready, without applying some catch-all organizational template to see who is ready and not ready.

And Hextall has proven this year with Provorov and Konecny that he'll put a young player on the big club if the situation warrants it.

Yeah, Doughty and Kopitar played for some real juggernauts in the early seasons in LA.

My philosophy is that the cream rises to the top. If a player is good, they'll develop into a good player. If a player is bad, then he won't develop into a good player.


I'm honestly having a hard time thinking of which young players, who are the best in the league now, joined great teams. I know Bergeron joined a good team at age 18 then began getting a lot more minutes and the team stunk for a while.


Basically, I don't see any correlation between delaying development in the NHL and success.


Now, if you feel the current team has a bad culture and you don't want the young guys around that, then I totally understand. However, in that case, you should probably fire the coach.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think some players have been hurt by being rushed. Grigorenko, Couturier, and A. Larsson come to mind off the top of my head.

You can't prove or disprove that a jump right to the NHL hurts players development or not. I feel that most players need at least some AHL time to develop before being thrown into the NHL, but I can't prove it for sure.

I think this is all a little silly. It's like Democrats and Republicans. I don't think anyone is saying that the AHL kills development, and I don't think anyone is saying that players need to be coddled, but that's how you guys seem to be taking it, whichever side you don't agree on.

Right now, I don't think there's any surefire way to maximize a player's development. There are players like Provorov who are too good for any league other than the NHL. Those players are few and far between, because most have flaws in their game.

The general thinking is that the AHL is a good league that offers very good pro competition where players can get accilimated to the pro game while working on their deficiencies so that, when they get to the NHL, they are much more polished. This also allows for more "complete" (yet sometimes less skilled) players to play on the NHL squad to let them remain fairly competitive.

The newer style of thinking is to let these players work out the kinks at the highest level, the NHL. However, the working out of these kinks will have severe growing pains and, while it may translate to more skill in the lineup, the team will most likely suffer in the short term as these players work on their flaws.

Neither way is always right. Some players need more time than others to work on their game, and some players thrive with more or less lower-level instruction. Disagreeing with one way or the other does not mean someone is attacking you personally.
- jmatchett383

Very well said.

Neither way is always right. Some players need more time than others to work on their game, and some players thrive with more or less lower-level instruction. Disagreeing with one way or the other does not mean someone is attacking you personally.
- jmatchett383

This is mostly where I fall...I don't believe there is one way to develop a prospect. I also think that overall, a player that is good enough has to develop at the NHL level anyway. If he is physically and mentally ready for the NHL I don't think it will be a problem. There isn't a recipe though where if you play under this certain condition for 2 years then you are deemed ready.

I don't completely agree with what PSG is saying, but I don't think he is wrong just because he disagrees with what the Flyers are doing. I do think Hextall is being over cautious (I believe he admits this as well) because in his mind the risk isn't worth the reward.

I'm hoping Hagg and Morin are ready out of camp and at some point Sanheim.
- nastyflyergirl

I hope that 2 out of Morin, Sanheim, Hagg, and Myers will make the jump out of training camp.

So Hextall is the only one to practice being patient with his prospects?

If it was better for these guys to just develop in the NHL why did AZ send Strome back to juniors. Carolina should just have Hayden Fleury in the NHL then.

My point is there is no exact science. But I think most GM's will error on the side of caution. I think Hextall and the hockey people know what is best for their guys. Is it really killing them playing in the AHL right now?
- J35Bacher

Couldn't have said it better myself