maybe...I don't think Leivo is a retrieval type player...but whatever...it would be nice to see anyone on that line just for a change.

Leo gives a lot more then his point totals show....but that's my opinion.
- Garnie

I agree on Leo, his defensive game is absolutely top notch and that is never reflected in personal points totals. As for leivo, I think that he has shown that he definitely deserves more than a few games on the bottom line, and if given the directive to be a bit more aggressive on the boards and to create a bit of space for Matthews/Nylander then he is definitely capable of that.

I agree on Leo, his defensive game is absolutely top notch and that is never reflected in personal points totals. As for leivo, I think that he has shown that he definitely deserves more than a few games on the bottom line, and if given the directive to be a bit more aggressive on the boards and to create a bit of space for Matthews/Nylander then he is definitely capable of that.
- lumlums

Yes...I'd try Leivo for sure.

I think Leo can bring it offensively...he's a great passer and has good vision IMO and believe it or not his shooting pct is better than Marners/JVR/Nylander this year.

Not saying I'd play Leo over those 3....but just something I think gets over looked on old Uncle Leo.

3-0 Pitts over FLA in the 3rd.


edit: 4-0

Yes...I'd try Leivo for sure.

I think Leo can bring it offensively...he's a great passer and has good vision IMO and believe it or not his shooting pct is better than Marners/JVR/Nylander this year.
- Garnie

He does have a slightly better Sh%, but let's not present that out of context - he does also have significantly fewer shots than almost any other forward not named "Martin" (I don't include the revolving door of 4Cs there due to not having played as many games). One of the reasons for that is that the shots that he does attempt either get flubbed before it leaves his stick or misses the goal, and so are not registered as a shot on goal. Another reason that his Sh% is higher is that he very rarely shoots from outside of the "home plate" area, so most of his chances would qualify as being high-density scoring chances, for which an ~11% Sh% is actually lower than average (HD Sh% is typically closer to 14-15% iirc).

He does have a slightly better Sh%, but let's not present that out of context - he does also have significantly fewer shots than almost any other forward not named "Martin" (I don't include the revolving door of 4Cs there due to not having played as many games). One of the reasons for that is that the shots that he does attempt either get flubbed before it leaves his stick or misses the goal, and so are not registered as a shot on goal. Another reason that his Sh% is higher is that he very rarely shoots from outside of the "home plate" area, so most of his chances would qualify as being high-density scoring chances, for which an ~11% Sh% is actually lower than average (HD Sh% is typically closer to 14-15% iirc).
- lumlums

He may have fewer shots but lets not pretend he doesn't look to feed it to Kadri or whoever else is on the line with him FIRST ( 1 reason why he's shot are down I would think...and yes he flubs it the odd time...who doesn't )....anyways...in my opinion, he's not as poor offensively as people talk about on here ( plus he gets way more D zone starts then the other guys mentioned and plays the toughest comp )....with his good d and good play making abilities I find it odd that he gets left off the team/traded so easily. ( not pointing at you, just in general )

It's a little jumbled...lol, my bad.

He does have a slightly better Sh%, but let's not present that out of context - he does also have significantly fewer shots than almost any other forward not named "Martin" (I don't include the revolving door of 4Cs there due to not having played as many games). One of the reasons for that is that the shots that he does attempt either get flubbed before it leaves his stick or misses the goal, and so are not registered as a shot on goal. Another reason that his Sh% is higher is that he very rarely shoots from outside of the "home plate" area, so most of his chances would qualify as being high-density scoring chances, for which an ~11% Sh% is actually lower than average (HD Sh% is typically closer to 14-15% iirc).
- lumlums

You guys take poop too far sometimes


No matter how much you break it down there's always the human element that numbers can't show. Numbers people can only draw little graphs and poop that shows what has already happened, they can't show or predict the future. I never see charts and graphs that show how (frank)ing wrong they always are.

I choose to 100% ignore stats that weren't being used 30 years ago.. it takes all the fun out of the game discussing stupid numbers that only those narcs who apparently have too much time on their hands can understand. I know it's only shooting % being discussed, but still..

He may have fewer shots but lets not pretend he doesn't look to feed it to Kadri or whoever else is on the line with him FIRST ( 1 reason why he's shot are down I would think...and yes he flubs it the odd time...who doesn't )....anyways...in my opinion, he's not as poor offensively as people talk about on here ( plus he gets way more D zone starts then the other guys mentioned and plays the toughest comp )....with his good d and good play making abilities I find it odd that he gets left off the team/traded so easily. ( not pointing at you, just in general )

It's a little jumbled...lol, my bad.
- Garnie

Lol, it's all good I managed to make something out of it

You guys take poop too far sometimes


No matter how much you break it down there's always the human element that numbers can't show. Numbers people can only draw little graphs and poop that shows what has already happened, they can't show or predict the future. I never see charts and graphs that show how (frank)ing wrong they always are.

I choose to 100% ignore stats that weren't being used 30 years ago.. it takes all the fun out of the game discussing stupid numbers that only those narcs who apparently have too much time on their hands can understand. I know it's only shooting % being discussed, but still..
- Arctic_AARDVARK

You high...?

And as for the "can't predict the future" aspect, you obviously can't do so with certainty, but analytics is absolutely about trying to use past results as a way to try and make educated assertions about future performance.

You high...?

And as for the "can't predict the future" aspect, you obviously can't do so with certainty, but analytics is absolutely about trying to use past results as a way to try and make educated assertions about future performance.
- lumlums

No I am not..

I understand that.. but these are human beings playing a game. There's a bajillion variables to consider if you want to make an accurate prediction but you consider like 4 or 5.. there's players that advanced stats would completely tear apart one year, then he's an all-star the next year. You can't apply numbers to chemistry between players. You can't apply numbers to momentum that a team has.. All it does is give something to point at so you can say "look at this, last year you were this, and now your that, so you're either not as good as before or you are better than before" and that must be annoying af for players. I doesn't take into account different coaching styles either.. there's just too many variables to say it has any effect on predicting what's going to happen. It's better to just watch the game and take note of who's doing what recently..

That's why I (frank)ing killed you guys in the predictions pool, you all were busting out calculators and protractors and poop and I was like nah, he'll score more..

No I am not..

I understand that.. but these are human beings playing a game. There's a bajillion variables to consider if you want to make an accurate prediction but you consider like 4 or 5.. there's players that advanced stats would completely tear apart one year, then he's an all-star the next year. You can't apply numbers to chemistry between players. You can't apply numbers to momentum that a team has.. All it does is give something to point at so you can say "look at this, last year you were this, and now your that, so you're either not as good as before or you are better than before" and that must be annoying af for players. I doesn't take into account different coaching styles either.. there's just too many variables to say it has any effect on predicting what's going to happen. It's better to just watch the game and take note of who's doing what recently..

That's why I (frank)ing killed you guys in the predictions pool, you all were busting out calculators and protractors and poop and I was like nah, he'll score more..
- Arctic_AARDVARK

I do love the idea that is always thrown out that folks who are on board with the stats watch the game with a calculator in hand and an excel sheet on the go


As for the predictions, I (and many others) didn't think that a team with so many rookies would be able to do as well as they have given their inexperience. I also went on the conservative side in case some (frank)er decided to throw out the idea of using "The Price is Right" rules...

I do love the idea that is always thrown out that folks who are on board with the stats watch the game with a calculator in hand and an excel sheet on the go


As for the predictions, I (and many others) didn't think that a team with so many rookies would be able to do as well as they have given their inexperience. I also went on the conservative side in case some (frank)er decided to throw out the idea of using "The Price is Right" rules...
- lumlums

It takes a skilled eye to be able to make an accurate educated guess about how a player will turn out. First of all, drop the rookie label. Just try to imagine how a player will stack up against NHL competition. Consider IQ, speed, skating abilities, and skill.. It doesn't matter if they're rookies as long as they are smart, hard working, and coached well.

I do love the idea that is always thrown out that folks who are on board with the stats watch the game with a calculator in hand and an excel sheet on the go


As for the predictions, I (and many others) didn't think that a team with so many rookies would be able to do as well as they have given their inexperience. I also went on the conservative side in case some (frank)er decided to throw out the idea of using "The Price is Right" rules...
- lumlums

I agree the analytics can be a good tool especially when you can't possibly watch all the games. But it's really not needed if you watch every game of the season...or it's not needed as much. Maybe some people need it...mostly those who hate the player before he even makes a play....not going to name posters lol...but those who watch the game and hope for the best from every player regardless if they female dog about them or not.......can tell what the (frank) is going on without the "spread sheet".

I agree the analytics can be a good tool especially when you can't possibly watch all the games. But it's really not needed if you watch every game of the season...or it's not needed as much. Maybe some people need it...mostly those who hate the player before he even makes a play....not going to name posters lol...but those who watch the game and hope for the best from every player regardless if they female dog about them or not.......can tell what the (frank) is going on without the "spread sheet".
- Garnie

Aetherial on Matthews?

Max on Nylander?

That one guy who only shows up to rag on

That sexy Gull on Gardiner?

Aetherial on Matthews?

Max on Nylander?

That one guy who only shows up to rag on Rielly?

That sexy Gull on Gardiner?
- Steven_Seagull

I'm like the least cynical poster here

I only rip on Martin... but haven't been since Boyle came along.

I'm like the least cynical poster here

I only rip on Martin... but haven't been since Boyle came along.
- Arctic_AARDVARK

You're the worst one! Okay, not really.

So if Bobrovsky wins his second Vezina this season...is he on his way to becoming the "best" "other" goalie? Two Vezina's (let's assume he doesn't win the Cup), but no distinction otherwise and unlikely to really make a huge mark in the wins and shutout categories based solely on his age and longevity of goaltenders.

You're the worst one! Okay, not really.
- Steven_Seagull

Not at all.

I rarely rip on our players..

So if Bobrovsky wins his second Vezina this season...is he on his way to becoming the "best" "other" goalie? Two Vezina's (let's assume he doesn't win the Cup), but no distinction otherwise and unlikely to really make a huge mark in the wins and shutout categories based solely on his age and longevity of goaltenders.
- AdamFrench

I really think he benefits from a defense first system in CLB..

Like Brodeur did in NJ.

I'm not sure he's any better than 10 other goalies in the league.

Aetherial on Matthews?

Max on Nylander?

That one guy who only shows up to rag on

That sexy Gull on Gardiner?
- Steven_Seagull

Aetherial is just stating the truth about Matthews...He doesn't call him a bum or bad...just says he disappeared for a few games...which he did, wasn't nearly as offensive....Max was trading a gem of a forward...for hopefully a gem of a D and well.....the bird is just that...a bird.

So if Bobrovsky wins his second Vezina this season...is he on his way to becoming the "best" "other" goalie? Two Vezina's (let's assume he doesn't win the Cup), but no distinction otherwise and unlikely to really make a huge mark in the wins and shutout categories based solely on his age and longevity of goaltenders.
- AdamFrench

He's the best goalie of all time.

Aetherial is just stating the truth about Matthews...He doesn't call him a bum or bad...just says he disappeared for a few games...which he did, wasn't nearly as offensive....Max was trading a gem of a forward...for hopefully a gem of a D and well.....the bird is just that...a bird.
- Garnie

The bird just likes to pile on people who have opinions.. If you say something not many others are saying you'll need an umbrella or the flying poop-rat will poop on you.

Aetherial is just stating the truth about Matthews...He doesn't call him a bum or bad...just says he disappeared for a few games...which he did, wasn't nearly as offensive....Max was trading a gem of a forward...for hopefully a gem of a D and well.....the bird is just that...a bird.
- Garnie

Disappeared or in his Rookie year learning how to be an all around NHL centerman.

Aetherial is just stating the truth about Matthews...He doesn't call him a bum or bad...just says he disappeared for a few games...which he did, wasn't nearly as offensive....Max was trading a gem of a forward...for hopefully a gem of a D and well.....the bird is just that...a bird.
- Garnie

Nylander doesn't get enough credit. To me out of the three...He has "improved" the most consistently throughout the season. Matthews and Marner are definitely still better. But he has closed the gap significantly.

Aetherial is just stating the truth about Matthews...He doesn't call him a bum or bad...just says he disappeared for a few games...which he did, wasn't nearly as offensive....Max was trading a gem of a forward...for hopefully a gem of a D and well.....the bird is just that...a bird.
- Garnie

I think Aetherial just picks his spots to rile up the some of dummies who frequent this site. He perpetuates nonsense and claims the people who get upset by it are too sensitive. It's been his shtick since I've been a poster. My guess is he's just really bored. Never seems to come around when things are going well. Like Honest Hockey or IggysBFF.

Nylander doesn't get enough credit. To me out of the three...He has "improved" the most consistently throughout the season. Matthews and Marner are definitely still better. But he has closed the gap significantly.
- Santo_44

He's also a year older than those two.. He plays that lateral game and like Kadri it takes a long time to learn how to do that effectively and not turn the puck over.. I think he's improved a lot too.