He doesn't. And neither were the Kings. Hell, they never would've even landed Carter if it weren't for him sulking in Ohio.
- hereticpride

I know this is a hot take, but I don't think the Kings management is all that great. I think they're bailed out by having two of the best players in hockey who can log enormous minutes and never get hurt. They're very hit and miss, but their hits are HUGE hits. I just don't see the level of consistency from their front office that a place like Chicago offers.

I think now is the time to do it. I don't have confidence he will, but I also don't think it screws the pooch.
- YuenglingJagr

I just look at the prospects coming and their window to bottom out is probably closing pretty soon. If they want to get that next great forward, they're either going to need to waaaaaay overdraft their slot or make a risky trade.


I guess we can always hope Rubtson becomes the next Kopitar

I know this is a hot take, but I don't think the Kings management is all that great. I think they're bailed out by having two of the best players in hockey who can log enormous minutes and never get hurt. They're very hit and miss, but their hits are HUGE hits. I just don't see the level of consistency from their front office that a place like Chicago offers.
- PhillySportsGuy

They drafted and built a team that won two Cups. Enough said.

I know this is a hot take, but I don't think the Kings management is all that great. I think they're bailed out by having two of the best players in hockey who can log enormous minutes and never get hurt. They're very hit and miss, but their hits are HUGE hits. I just don't see the level of consistency from their front office that a place like Chicago offers.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think Hextall was a bigger part of that than people think. I don't think I'd call their front office overrated, but they did not do a good job with locking up their core. Chicago picked a group and stuck with it. LA just tried to keep everyone (with bad contracts too)

It seems like building a team and keeping a team competitive aren't the same skillset

I just look at the prospects coming and their window to bottom out is probably closing pretty soon. If they want to get that next great forward, they're either going to need to waaaaaay overdraft their slot or make a risky trade.


I guess we can always hope Rubtson becomes the next Kopitar
- PhillySportsGuy

I can always hope Schenn gets traded for Barzal

They drafted and built a team that won two Cups. Enough said.
- MJL

My point is more that LA's path isn't really repeatable, so we shouldn't look to them as a team to emulate.

I feel like people are having trouble distinguishing between tanking and simply rebuilding. Before the Sixers, the normal standard operating procedure for rebuilding was to trade your top veterans for youth/picks and play that youth along with some veterans dispersed throughout the lineup. That's all I'm asking. I'm not saying the team should trade Schenn, Simmonds, Giroux and Voracek all at once for the highest and best offer. I just want this team to go into next season knowing they won't be good and knowing that the development of young players like Morin, Sanheim, Hagg, Ghost, Provorov, Lindblom and others is most important. They can even just keep Neuvy and tag team him with one of the young goalies. If they both finish with a .880 save percentage then so what.

What Hexy is doing right now is GUARANTEEING we'll pick between 10-20 EVERY year for 5-7 straight seasons. Does he really think 2-3 more seasons like this and last year are going to keep the fans happy? I feel like they'd be happier if a traditional rebuild began. I feel like people would understand.
- PhillySportsGuy

It just comes down to: I don't care if they make the playoffs this year (lol that ship is halfway across the Atlantic). Next year either. I love this team and want them to be great, but it means little long-term other than short-term gratification. I don't really care that much that Filppula gives us a better 3C for 1 year in which we go nowhere other than game to game watching. If they did it to give them options for a year, like replacing production trading a key forward, then I like it. But the continual having of the cake and eating it too. As we always say: is this a rebuild or a competitive team? It can't be both without either not doing all you can to compete or not doing all you can to rebuild.

This offseason will be important. I just need some signs of affirmation from Hexy. Like I said, I think we are just missing a piece or two, and that's it. An important piece or two, but the structure of the team is coming together long-term. Even if an important player is traded to acquire one of those pieces, with players like Lindblom and Sanheim and Myers coming in, they are going to lift this team up to where I struggle to see them just picking top 10 for 2-3 more years. I don't think they need to either tbh. There are other ways to acquire top 10 talent, and that's what I want to see.

My point is more that LA's path isn't really repeatable, so we shouldn't look to them as a team to emulate.
- PhillySportsGuy

Plus LA cleared the hump by a Conference Champ deciding they need to move their Captain and top goal scorer. That doesn't just happen every year. Plus they got absolutely unreal play from Quick.

As they were built they were basically a team that could get to the playoffs but couldn't win if they gave up more than two goals.

My point is more that LA's path isn't really repeatable, so we shouldn't look to them as a team to emulate.
- PhillySportsGuy

I disagree on both. It is repeatable, regardless of the odds of getting players of that quality. We may already have our "Doughty". The Kings built their team through the draft and supplemented with trades when they became available. The Flyers should absolutely emulate that philosophy and they are. Lombardi was very patient and waited for the right moves to present themselves at the right time. Identifying which players that you can move to get a different mix takes time. With the plethora of quality defense prospects that we have, the Flyers may get some chips to play.

I think Hextall was a bigger part of that than people think. I don't think I'd call their front office overrated, but they did not do a good job with locking up their core. Chicago picked a group and stuck with it. LA just tried to keep everyone (with bad contracts too)

It seems like building a team and keeping a team competitive aren't the same skillset
- YuenglingJagr

That's a fair point. I just don't think it's easy to replicate what they've done. They were kind of a mess then made a great trade for Carter, made the playoffs as the 8th seed, Quick got hot and they won a cup.

It's far different than the Blackhawks who built up a great core through bottoming out, good drafting, smart trades and some good signings. You go back and look at that first cup winning team and they were (frank)ing stacked.

I can always hope Schenn gets traded for Barzal
- YuenglingJagr

I have a feeling Schenn has less value around the league than people think

Not really in jest. I'm just thinking there's no way hexy picks a guy that doesn't play a "200 ft game"
- YuenglingJagr

Konecny? Laberge? Allison? They aren't shy about using 1st and 2nd round picks on guys with what I'd say are "work in progress" 2-way games.

Obviously they love 200 ft intelligent players, and so do I. I think hockey IQ can never be underestimated. But it isn't 200 ft play that unites virtually every pick the Hextall regime has made. It's -- in intangibles mode -- competitiveness and desire to win. Hextall has been very very vocal about this. Obviously they're not out there selecting energy guys and care about skill and smarts and all that, but if you don't play with hunger and intensity, Flyers don't want you. So when I look at prospects, I often think about this as it relates to the Flyers taking a player. I think Yamamoto does fwiw.

I have a feeling Schenn has less value around the league than people think
- PhillySportsGuy

For a pick straight up what do you think he's worth? My guess is somewhere from 15th to 19th overall.

It just comes down to: I don't care if they make the playoffs this year (lol that ship is halfway across the Atlantic). Next year either. I love this team and want them to be great, but it means little long-term other than short-term gratification. I don't really care that much that Filppula gives us a better 3C for 1 year in which we go nowhere other than game to game watching. If they did it to give them options for a year, like replacing production trading a key forward, then I like it. But the continual having of the cake and eating it too. As we always say: is this a rebuild or a competitive team? It can't be both without either not doing all you can to compete or not doing all you can to rebuild.

This offseason will be important. I just need some signs of affirmation from Hexy. Like I said, I think we are just missing a piece or two, and that's it. An important piece or two, but the structure of the team is coming together long-term. Even if an important player is traded to acquire one of those pieces, with players like Lindblom and Sanheim and Myers coming in, they are going to lift this team up to where I struggle to see them just picking top 10 for 2-3 more years. I don't think they need to either tbh. There are other ways to acquire top 10 talent, and that's what I want to see.
- Mononoke

I don't think you're going to get that affirmation from Hexy. I think you're going to see the exact same thing we've seen every offseason from the Flyers. Adding quantity to the prospect pool, spending very little in FA, making low risk trades and forcing a young player to be otherworldly if they want to make the roster out of camp. The Filppula move is basically his first offseason move. I'd expect a bridge deal for Ghost as well because that's low risk.

For a pick straight up what do you think he's worth? My guess is somewhere from 15th to 19th overall.
- hereticpride

The going rate for 55-60 point 25 year old wingers on fair, short-term deals is not a mid-late teens 1st. I'd scoff at that tbh

Konecny? Laberge? Allison? They aren't shy about using 1st and 2nd round picks on guys with what I'd say are "work in progress" 2-way games.

Obviously they love 200 ft intelligent players, and so do I. I think hockey IQ can never be underestimated. But it isn't 200 ft play that unites virtually every pick the Hextall regime has made. It's -- in intangibles mode -- competitiveness and desire to win. Hextall has been very very vocal about this. Obviously they're not out there selecting energy guys and care about skill and smarts and all that, but if you don't play with hunger and intensity, Flyers don't want you. So when I look at prospects, I often think about this as it relates to the Flyers taking a player. I think Yamamoto does fwiw.
- Mononoke

That's fair. I don't spent that much time with it other than just watching and seeing people I like. I don't know how they projected at the NHL but I thought they were all pretty good two way guys at junior levels

For a pick straight up what do you think he's worth? My guess is somewhere from 15th to 19th overall.
- hereticpride

I would guess that as well, but I've never been a huge fan of his

The going rate for 55-60 point 25 year old wingers on fair, short-term deals is not a mid-late teens 1st. I'd scoff at that tbh
- Mononoke

Scoff, you say!

I don't think you're going to get that affirmation from Hexy. I think you're going to see the exact same thing we've seen every offseason from the Flyers. Adding quantity to the prospect pool, spending very little in FA, making low risk trades and forcing a young player to be otherworldly if they want to make the roster out of camp. The Filppula move is basically his first offseason move. I'd expect a bridge deal for Ghost as well because that's low risk.
- PhillySportsGuy

I know. But a boy can dream.

I really just think the entire core will stay the same, add in Morin+Sanheim+Lindblom and Filppula for a full year, sign a cheap bottom 6 guy again, sign a goalie and blaze a trail to being a bubble team again, maybe winning a round at best, and no major step made to correct long-term issues.

Scoff, you say!
- PhillySportsGuy

Yep. I would not do that. He has warts, but any team would trade a mid-late teens pick for a proven 50-55 point winger on an affordable deal. Schenn isn't this bad 5v5. He's not this good on the PP either. Both should stabilize going forward and still let him be his 50-55 point self. That's a dumb rebuild move in my book and poor value. It's a move that could backfire immensely. You can't lament drafting 20, and then trade what is a top 6 winger for a pick around there.

I really do think you can trade a low top 10 pick for Schenn, or even use him plus our first this year to maybe get a lotto pick. I've long mentioned Barzal+ as the type of value I think Schenn has, and I'll stick with it.

I know. But a boy can dream.

I really just think the entire core will stay the same, add in Morin+Sanheim+Lindblom and Filppula for a full year, sign a cheap bottom 6 guy again, sign a goalie and blaze a trail to being a bubble team again, maybe winning a round at best.
- Mononoke

I honestly don't even think we'll see many young guys either. I think maybe Morin will make the team out of camp.

Yep. I would not do that. He has warts, but any team would trade a mid-late teens pick for a proven 50-55 point winger on an affordable deal. Schenn isn't this bad 5v5. He's not this good on the PP either. Both should stabilize going forward and still let him be his 50-55 point self. That's a dumb rebuild move in my book and poor value. It's a move that could backfire immensely. You can't lament drafting 20, and then trade what is a top 6 winger for a pick around there.

I really do think you can trade a low top 10 pick for Schenn, or even use him plus our first this year to maybe get a lotto pick. I've long mentioned Barzal+ as the type of value I think Schenn has, and I'll stick with it.
- Mononoke

Considering this is a weak draft, I probably wouldn't move him for that, but if it was a regular draft, I see his value around 12-15. I'm trying to think of the closest comp to him that was traded recently.

I honestly don't even think we'll see many young guys either. I think maybe Morin will make the team out of camp.
- PhillySportsGuy

I know you hate how rigid Hexy is about it, but Lindblom is on the team next year to start. He just will be. I think Sanheim too. I bet they can't be happier with his development down there in both ends. People speculate about Myers, but he's in the A and should be. Hagg, who knows. Maybe he's packaged; maybe he's on the team. It honestly sounds like they want him on the team, unless there's tire pumping going on (there may be). I imagine they see Hagg and Morin in similar roles. Laughton and Leier are waiver exempt, so both will be on the team or traded most likely.

Well you can get on your soapbox and complain that I will go on a hour long diatribe, but I suggest some self policing on your part. I don't force you to discuss anything with me. You do so of your own free will. Now getting to the actual topic, you're still not addressing the core of my point which is simply that there is no guarantee regardless of what method and philosophy of team building you adopt. Pretty simple, so bringing up the situation in Edmonton is not a poor comparison in that context.
- MJL

If your point is that the draft picks are no guarantee then there's really no reason to mention the Oilers franchise. A lot of the picks they made were good. They were just incompetent. I don't think the Flyers are, so in a similar situation (repeated high draft picks) I'd trust that they wouldn't end up the same.

You can say there's no guarantee, but I think that is stating the obvious. We are talking about odds, not certainty.

Considering this is a weak draft, I probably wouldn't move him for that, but if it was a regular draft, I see his value around 12-15. I'm trying to think of the closest comp to him that was traded recently.
- PhillySportsGuy

Honestly Oshie came to mind because I talked about it earlier, but it's by no means a perfect comparison