If it makes you feel any better, here is who we want to hire:

So you don't watch this team nor read the post game nor pre game interviews. You don't know about the infamous trash can incident or how the players have dislked listening to the farmer for some time now. You don't know about all the lies and excuses.

Did he get it done? That's up for debate. Voynov
ov coming up, Jeff Carter coming in certaiy helped him a lot along with an already talented team that was defensively elite and had a great leadership group. Now that many are gone he has no answers, only excuses. But you wouldn't know anything about that.

Quack Quack
- verwustung

2 Cups in 3 years, yeah he "got it done". And I'm sorry, I thought these players were paid millions of dollars to play for whichever damn coach they're told to play for.

As far as "Now that many are gone he has no answers, only excuses." Well obviously he's not going to produce the same level of success when you remove Williams, Richards, Mitchell, Voynov, Bernier, ect. Why would you expect that with half an AHL lineup?

If they miss the playoffs, they'll have had only one playoff win in the last 3 seasons, all while players who have proven that they can win a Cup were in their primes. Where do you draw the line? Do you just keep doing what you're doing, expecting different results, until the window has fully closed and your elite players are all declining? No offense, but I imagine that Ducks fans would love to see the Kings continue as they have been until it's time to rebuild.

If your argument is that replacing just the GM should be enough to turn the team around, you might not realize that, in the same way that the GM handcuffs this coach, this coach handcuffs the GM. It's very hard for Lombardi to improve the team when he has to get specific types of players who will fit Sutter's style and whom Sutter will actually use. Even then, the players are likely to produce a lot less than they would for a different coach. A 20-goal scorer is liable to score only 14 in Sutter's system, a 30-goal scorer is liable to score only 21, and so on. A new GM is not going to have it any easier, as long as the success and usage of any players that he gets all runs through the coach. You won't get the most out of a new GM unless a new coach comes with it.

All of that said, it's not just about results. It's also about just being tired of the uncreative system and games that are more often boring than exciting. When it leads to success (as it did from '12-'14), it's easy to tolerate. When the games are boring and the team hasn't won in 3 years, you just want a change. Just like how players often need a change of scenery, viewers can use something like that, themselves.
- Osprey

All I'm saying is you can't expect success with a depleted roster and not a whole lot of top prospects. Those things are not the coach's fault. I'm not saying simply switching GM's would do the trick either, it takes time to rebuild. But directing all the anger towards Sutter is wrong when Lombardi caused this situation by ALWAYS trading his best prospects away and offering terrible contracts like Gaborik and Brown.

If they miss the playoffs, they'll have had only one playoff win in the last 3 seasons, all while players who have proven that they can win a Cup were in their primes. Where do you draw the line? Do you just keep doing what you're doing, expecting different results, until the window has fully closed and your elite players are all declining? No offense, but I imagine that Ducks fans would love to see the Kings continue as they have been until it's time to rebuild.

If your argument is that replacing just the GM should be enough to turn the team around, you might not realize that, in the same way that the GM handcuffs this coach, this coach handcuffs the GM. It's very hard for Lombardi to improve the team when he has to get specific types of players who will fit Sutter's style and whom Sutter will actually use. Even then, the players are likely to produce a lot less than they would for a different coach. A 20-goal scorer is liable to score only 14 in Sutter's system, a 30-goal scorer is liable to score only 21, and so on. A new GM is not going to have it any easier, as long as the success and usage of any players that he gets all runs through the coach. You won't get the most out of a new GM unless a new coach comes with it.

All of that said, it's not just about results. It's also about just being tired of the uncreative system and games that are more often boring than exciting. When it leads to success (as it did from '12-'14), it's easy to tolerate. When the games are boring and the team hasn't won in 3 years, you just want a change. Just like how players often need a change of scenery, viewers can use something like that, themselves.
- Osprey

Sorry, how many franking times have I seen a so called skilled King player in front of of the net and fail to lift the puck into the net. How many times do we have anybody in front of the net and the so called skilled Kings players miss a tip in. We're Not that skilled as a team and don't have finish. Sutter and Lombardi will go because it's the thing to do. Didn't think I'd agree with a Duck fan but gtrman09 is correct!

2 Cups in 3 years, yeah he "got it done". And I'm sorry, I thought these players were paid millions of dollars to play for whichever damn coach they're told to play for.

As far as "Now that many are gone he has no answers, only excuses." Well obviously he's not going to produce the same level of success when you remove Williams, Richards, Mitchell, Voynov, Bernier, ect. Why would you expect that with half an AHL lineup?
- gtrman09

Bub, if you haven't noticed, half the teams in the NHL are up against the cap and are playing with all kinds of plugs and scrubs in their lineup and still getting it done.

Williams, Mitchell, Richards, Stoll, Greene, what do you notice about these guys? None are particullarly high scorers, or even scorers for that matter. These guys are pure grit and never say die guys that a team needs to win a Cup. It is these guys that were important, not the dimwitted farmer. It's not like the fatmer hasn't had other tools like the Norris winner, The Selke winner, A team Canada centrrman, another Team Canada Dman, young guns Toffoli and Pearson, all world goalie and starter for Team USA. Lombardi even brought him a big winger in Lucic last year and they went out like female dogea at the end of the season losing the diviaion crown in the process.

Bub, if you haven't noticed, half the teams in the NHL are up against the cap and are playing with all kinds of plugs and scrubs in their lineup and still getting it done.

Williams, Mitchell, Richards, Stoll, Greene, what do you notice about these guys? None are particullarly high scorers, or even scorers for that matter. These guys are pure grit and never say die guys that a team needs to win a Cup. It is these guys that were important, not the dimwitted farmer. It's not like the fatmer hasn't had other tools like the Norris winner, The Selke winner, A team Canada centrrman, another Team Canada Dman, young guns Toffoli and Pearson, all world goalie and starter for Team USA. Lombardi even brought him a big winger in Lucic last year and they went out like female dogea at the end of the season losing the diviaion crown in the process.
- verwustung

Logan. Is that you?

Logan. Is that you?
- poisondhearts37

Wolverine?

Wolverine?
- verwustung

duh bub

duh bub
- poisondhearts37

Would be cool if I was...

LaDue's defensive stats are horrid, the worst on the team, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt because he's been paired with the defenseman with the 2nd-worst stats (and worst to have played more than a dozen games), who dragged down Martinez before him. As I said last night, Lombardi should've traded Muzzin for a top-6 scorer when he had the chance. He should still do it before the expansion draft, IMO, since a protection should not be wasted on him and he has too much trade value to allow to be taken.

If the team misses the playoffs, everyone should be let go. Lombardi's judgment last offseason was tremendously poor (even at the time), but worse is that he didn't do a thing to address it for most of the season, until it was pretty much too late, and he still didn't go far enough. Sutter has to work with what he's given, but he still has to manage it well. For example, it's inexcusable to give Muzzin so many minutes and defensive zone starts despite him being such a defensive liability all season. Sutter's Corsi-focused game plan that emphasizes outshooting opponents, rather than outscoring them, is not cutting the mustard. Finally, the assistant coaches don't seem to know what they're doing anymore and haven't earned enough benefit of the doubt to be kept on. A fresh head coach is needed who is interested in bringing in new assistants, since holdovers detract from the fresh way of doing things that the team needs.
- Osprey

If a decent head coach becomes available, then I wouldn't be adverse to a coaching change. I am extremely against change for the sake of change. Sutter might not be a top-3 coach in the NHL, but he's certainly in the top 10. If someone like Mike Babcock, Joel Quenneville, or Barry Trotz becomes available, then sure, make the upgrade. However, if our only options are Bob Hartley and Ken Hitchcock, then I'll stick with Sutter.

If a decent head coach becomes available, then I wouldn't be adverse to a coaching change. I am extremely against change for the sake of change. Sutter might not be a top-3 coach in the NHL, but he's certainly in the top 10. If someone like Mike Babcock, Joel Quenneville, or Barry Trotz becomes available, then sure, make the upgrade. However, if our only options are Bob Hartley and Ken Hitchcock, then I'll stick with Sutter.
- tkecanuck341

Randy Carlyle might be available soon. You want him?

Randy Carlyle might be available soon. You want him?
- yzermaneely

Nope. I'd consider Dave Tippett and Lindy Ruff also. If Scotty Bowman came out of retirement, I'd take him too. Aside from that, I'll stick with Sutter.

All I'm saying is you can't expect success with a depleted roster and not a whole lot of top prospects. Those things are not the coach's fault. I'm not saying simply switching GM's would do the trick either, it takes time to rebuild. But directing all the anger towards Sutter is wrong when Lombardi caused this situation by ALWAYS trading his best prospects away and offering terrible contracts like Gaborik and Brown.
- gtrman09

Who are you talking to? Who has said that all of the blame goes to Sutter?

Sorry, how many franking times have I seen a so called skilled King player in front of of the net and fail to lift the puck into the net. How many times do we have anybody in front of the net and the so called skilled Kings players miss a tip in. We're Not that skilled as a team and don't have finish. Sutter and Lombardi will go because it's the thing to do. Didn't think I'd agree with a Duck fan but gtrman09 is correct!
- arh777

The problem is not just lack of skill, IMO, but that the Kings' system is so predictable that the goaltender is usually in position, which necessitates lifting the puck in order to score. You could find more players who can lift the puck and/or you can find a system that encourages making the goaltender move and catching him out of position.

Let's say that two of the least skilled Kings players, Nolan and Andreoff, are in the offensive zone. Nolan has the puck at the top of the circle and Andreoff is crashing the net. Sutter's system encourages Nolan to pause and wait for Andreoff to create traffic before he fires, then Andreoff to try to screen the goaltender, tip the shot (something that he's not skilled enough for) or lift a rebound over the goaltender's pads (also something that he's not skilled enough for). It relies on a lot of luck and skill. A different, more creative system might, instead, encourage Andreoff to hold up and stay open for a pass at the far corner of the crease. The goaltender might cheat towards Andreoff, giving Nolan a better chance of scoring on a shot, or he might just play Nolan, giving Andreoff a mostly open net if he can receive the pass, in which case Andreoff may not even need to lift the puck because the goaltender will be out of position. Even a low-skilled player like Andreoff can score on an empty net.

That's just a simple example of how you might get extra offense from a creative system even if you don't upgrade the players at all. After all, I think that we all recognize that players tend to sacrifice production in Sutter's system. The reverse must then also be true that a different system would allow for squeezing more skill and production from the same players. Now, obviously, upgrading the players also helps, which is why I'm suggesting letting Lombardi go, but skill isn't just something that you have, but something that you use, and it's easy to look like you have less skill if the system doesn't encourage you to use it as much.

i'm with osprey on this...they miss the playoffs and no one in mgmt should be considered safe. yes this mgmt team won 2 cups in 3 years, but the postseason success was 3 seasons ago, with horrible asset mgmt since then as well.

This team in built on being robots. Emotion is not cultivated or rewarded. When all you hear is "just keep playing the system" you have players who are robotic and don't think outside the system. System has ground out the creativity in every player but Dowd and Kempe right now. 5 of the shootout tries last night failed to even make Domingue move off his spot. HORRENDOUS. Add to this that the team has raised ticket prices $40 and up for playoffs (a joke of a thought at this point) and overall for next season. There a ton of empty seats last night (even though it was announced as a sell out) and next season you should see an empty barn much like the Ponda Center on any given night...
I've never been on the fire DL/DS page, but I really think DS might need to go. The only problem is the associate coach will be moved in and he's cut from the same cloth.

Randy Carlyle might be available soon. You want him?
- yzermaneely

Well, according to your fellow pond monkey, once a coach leads a team to a Stanley Cup he is untoachable. But we all know that it was Niedermayer, Pronger, and Selanne that got it done.

This team in built on being robots. Emotion is not cultivated or rewarded. When all you hear is "just keep playing the system" you have players who are robotic and don't think outside the system. System has ground out the creativity in every player but Dowd and Kempe right now. 5 of the shootout tries last night failed to even make Domingue move off his spot. HORRENDOUS. Add to this that the team has raised ticket prices $40 and up for playoffs (a joke of a thought at this point) and overall for next season. There a ton of empty seats last night (even though it was announced as a sell out) and next season you should see an empty barn much like the Ponda Center on any given night...
I've never been on the fire DL/DS page, but I really think DS might need to go. The only problem is the associate coach will be moved in and he's cut from the same cloth.
- Stu17

Well put. That was a pathetic effort last night. It looked like the Yotes were the ones trying to get into the playoffs last night. If you still support Sutter after that effort you really gotta get your head screwed on straight.

This team in built on being robots. Emotion is not cultivated or rewarded. When all you hear is "just keep playing the system" you have players who are robotic and don't think outside the system. System has ground out the creativity in every player but Dowd and Kempe right now.
- Stu17

That's well said and what I was trying to get at above, in far more words than you needed. The system doesn't encourage creativity. It encourages doing the same things over and over and playing the percentages. The thought is that, if they do them enough times, they'll eventually get rewarded. That's what leads to routinely getting 35+ shots. When your system produces shooting percentages around 5%, you pretty much have to get to 40 shots just to produce 2 goals. It's akin to throwing more money at a problem, rather than fixing the system.

As you said, players gradually get the creativity ground out of them. Even players who were never very creative or skilled, like King and Clifford, tend to become less and less effective over time. Most of the individualism and initiative that they had when they first joined the team gets replaced with robotic procedure. How many players looked really good for the first season or so under Sutter and then took a downturn? King was really good for the rest of the season after his call up. Both Brown and Gaborik were really good for about a season and a half under Sutter. We tend to chalk them up to suddenly sucking, and maybe there's some to that, but how much is due to them eventually adjusting their games in order to play Sutter hockey? Might they rebound somewhat under a new coaching staff? Maybe it's too late for them, but it's an interesting possibility.

This team in built on being robots. Emotion is not cultivated or rewarded. When all you hear is "just keep playing the system" you have players who are robotic and don't think outside the system. System has ground out the creativity in every player but Dowd and Kempe right now. 5 of the shootout tries last night failed to even make Domingue move off his spot. HORRENDOUS. Add to this that the team has raised ticket prices $40 and up for playoffs (a joke of a thought at this point) and overall for next season. There a ton of empty seats last night (even though it was announced as a sell out) and next season you should see an empty barn much like the Ponda Center on any given night...
I've never been on the fire DL/DS page, but I really think DS might need to go. The only problem is the associate coach will be moved in and he's cut from the same cloth.
- Stu17

I was ready to throw my beer at the TV seeing player after player try to shoot 5 hole. If it didn't work the first time....

Quacks and Blues fans are on the Quack blog talking poop about Kings and Kings fans. Get over there. Need reenforcements!

2 Cups in 3 years, yeah he "got it done". And I'm sorry, I thought these players were paid millions of dollars to play for whichever damn coach they're told to play for.

As far as "Now that many are gone he has no answers, only excuses." Well obviously he's not going to produce the same level of success when you remove Williams, Richards, Mitchell, Voynov, Bernier, ect. Why would you expect that with half an AHL lineup?
- gtrman09

Loyalty got us the Brown contract. No one looks at DS as a failure. Far from it. But his philosophy, with this roster, isn't cutting it anymore and he hasn't changed his approach. No one can look at this team and say they're still a contender. The Kings are moving further away from the Cup, not closer. He needs to go, and so does DL.

Super weak call on Doughty.

I was super stoked at the energy that Bishop and Quickie had after the win. Both guys super pumped for the win. Kempe has been playing super good lately. Glad he got himself another goal. Brown has been pretty good lately as well IMO. Points or not. His plays have created open ice for plays for goals. Glad to see a win. I do know the team should have won the past 2 or so games. But this was a good win.

I was super stoked at the energy that Bishop and Quickie had after the win. Both guys super pumped for the win. Kempe has been playing super good lately. Glad he got himself another goal. Brown has been pretty good lately as well IMO. Points or not. His plays have created open ice for plays for goals. Glad to see a win. I do know the team should have won the past 2 or so games. But this was a good win.
- poisondhearts37

Agree, let's keep it going.

Well, according to your fellow pond monkey, once a coach leads a team to a Stanley Cup he is untoachable. But we all know that it was Niedermayer, Pronger, and Selanne that got it done.
- verwustung

Yeah, and Joel Quenneville ain't poop, it was obviously just Keith, Kane and Toews that deserve credit for those cups.

The only times Carlyle hasn't been very successful is when he's given a crap roster like in Toronto, or the year he got fired in Anaheim with a roster full of such mainstays as Dan Sexton, Andrew Gordon, Evgeni Artyukin, etc. Randy is a fantastic coach. As is Darryl Sutter.

Any thoughts on the play by play call last night by Jon Rosen? A little too wordy for me, felt more like a radio call.