When he took his head out of his ass
- YuenglingJagr

Really comes down to the role his head and ass play within the team structure.

They have drafted very well. They've also greatly improved their team in other avenues. What position in the conference would the Jackets be in right now without Bobrovsky, Hartnell, and Gagner?
- PLindbergh31

they have done a good job with trades to supplement the good drafting esp with obtaining jones and I would expect at some point Hextall will do the same. I think his trades have been good minus Umberger and even that I got. Hextall inherited contracts like Pronger, Vinny, and Amac. he has done a good job of ridding themselves of some of contracts. Soon enough contracts like Read will be gone. He obviously has a lot of work to still do and over the next few years we will see how the draft picks pan out and I would fully expect trades to happen to continue to improve the team.

When Vegas doesn't take Nuevirth, and on July 1 when VDV is re-signed I'll move on from Bellemare.
- PLindbergh31

And I will be in agreement with you.

And I will be in agreement with you.
- FlyerFan16

If the Flyers were intent on re-signing Vandevelde, I would think that it would happen before July 1.

Expert analysis there. That point may just have occurred simultaneously as when his players started playing better.
- MJL

You're right....a coach decides on a philosophy at the beginning of his career and sticks with it until he retires or is canned. There's just no possible way a guy who was basically run out of the league felt the need to change the way he acted and his coaching philosophy

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored by a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential rate is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.

If the Flyers were intent on re-signing Vandevelde, I would think that it would happen before July 1.
- MJL

Don't want to let other teams have a shot at him. Lock him up.

The Flyers disagree that Bellemare isn't a stiff. They are the smartest guys ever!
Bellemare is sure ramming it down the throats of all the critics!
- PLindbergh31

Sorry Im taking the professionals opinion on a player over people posting on Hockeybuzz.com .

Has to be a reason why they signed him..

Again Im not in love with PEB and look to a time when he isnt on the team but he is literally 8 or 9th on things I hate about this team.

Their coach, who has been much maligned also has them playing a strong brand of team hockey.
- MJL

I'm sure we could find some wise posts from the resident GMs here on how awful a coach he is.

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored my a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

0/2

When Vegas doesn't take Nuevirth, and on July 1 when VDV is re-signed I'll move on from Bellemare.
- PLindbergh31

if CVV is signed for anyone but the Phantoms i'll be with you on complaining about that signing. and I am on record with saying I prefer mason over neuvirth if choosing between the two

If the Flyers were intent on re-signing Vandevelde, I would think that it would happen before July 1.
- MJL

If he comes back it will be disappointing whenever they do it.

Not only does the management see PEB differently but so do his teammates.
- dragonoffrost

It's shocking to me just how many hockey professionals can be so very wrong.

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored my a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential rate is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

You used the Macro level. Flyers use Micro. That's why you cannot see what they see.

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored my a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

You sir are a wordsmith. I wish I could put these thoughts together in such a well formed way....

Ehhh... who am I kidding, I prob could, it's just more fun complaining.


In all seriousness, very well said.

You're right....a coach decides on a philosophy at the beginning of his career and sticks with it until he retires or is canned. There's just no possible way a guy who was basically run out of the league felt the need to change the way he acted and his coaching philosophy
- YuenglingJagr

http://www.hockey-referen...m/coaches/tortojo99c.html

I was unaware that he was basically run out of the league. When did that happen? He's been the coach of an NHL team for 18 straight years. Watching last night, he seems like the same old Tortorella to me. Like most coaches he has had his successes and failures, and a coach like him certainly has a shelf life, but he's been a good coach.

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored my a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential rate is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

Fine, but I guarantee you this is what will be said here when/if PEB and/or CV are replaced.

"Oh, swell, finally, but the 4th line still sucks."

http://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/tortojo99c.html

I was unaware that he was basically run out of the league. When did that happen? He's been the coach of an NHL team for 18 straight years. Watching last night, he seems like the same old Tortorella to me. Like most coaches he has had his successes and failures, and a coach like him certainly has a shelf life, but he's been a good coach.
- MJL

18 straight years huh? When did he turn 56? Did he do so well at 55 he got to skip a year? Maybe he got locked out of age 56?

Sounds like you've seen a lot Blue Jackets games too

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

This is a false narrative. He added a 19 year old skilled rookie in Konecny to the team this season. He traded for a skilled veteran in Filppula. Look at the players he's drafted. Can't have tunnel vision on a few players, and ignore the rest of what the GM had done.

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored by a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential rate is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

Thank you. This is very well said and kinda what i have been saying on here today, just not as articulate.

I agree Bellemare won't matter, but it is about their evaluation process.

Fine, but I guarantee you this is what will be said here when/if PEB and/or CV are replaced.

"Oh, swell, finally, but the 4th line still sucks."
- Scoob

I learned earlier the Blackhawks 4th line also sucks so we have that.

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored by a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential rate is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't find those guys very gritty... unless you condsider seaweed rough.

18 straight years huh? Sounds like you've seen a lot Blue Jackets games too
- YuenglingJagr

Zero context.

18 straight years huh? Sounds like you've seen a lot Blue Jackets games too
- YuenglingJagr

Come on, are you serious with that? 15 years, whatever. You can't just ignore his point. Like him or not, Tortorella is a good coach and was never "run out of the league."

gmafb

If he comes back it will be disappointing whenever they do it.
- FlyerFan16

I believe this is Vandevelde's last season with the Flyers, but I could be wrong.