If they had an established nhl material coach and a matching GM they likely would not have signed Weise, Bellmare, Vandevelde and certainly would have let Neuvirth go to free agency like cousin Steve is going to. Mason will get a starter job somewhere because he has the talent and could be great on a good team, I say could be. I am getting so fed up with losing and watching the team lose and management accepting it while taking good money from fans who are paying to watch a train wreck live.
- joegreif17

It certainly is a trainwreck. Can't argue with that. I was optimistic when Hextall was hired, he's done some nice things he's drafted very well, and has made some solid trades. His coaching hire, free agents additions, player evaluations gives me reason to be skeptical. I'm not ready to pull the plug on Hextall yet, but the coach seems to be in over his head.

I don't really like their system either because it gives too much time and space to the most skilled players on the opposing team. They don't really execute it well either. It's designed to force shots from weak areas, but they don't do a good enough job of funneling pucks out there.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's just interesting that Simmonds, who plays the PK more aggressively than the rest of the bunch, has been their most effective PKer

My list of issues with the team that I put before PEB

1. Decline of Giroux
2. Weak goaltending from Neuvy and Mason
2. Inconsistency by Jake and Schenn
3. Disappointing season by Coots
4. Sophomore slump by Ghost
5. Lack of jam, sandpaper , toughness
6. Lack of size
7. Lack of faith by Plind
8. HAK
9. Walking Dead VdV
10. PEB
- opeth_pa

I really think peb should be higher than plind.

How did MacDonald miss this list? He makes everyone around him worse.
- SimmerDown17

I'm more of a concern than MacDonald apparently.

I don't really like their system either because it gives too much time and space to the most skilled players on the opposing team. They don't really execute it well either. It's designed to force shots from weak areas, but they don't do a good enough job of funneling pucks out there.
- PhillySportsGuy

I personally don't like their forward rotation at the top of the PK. I know they did that to cut down on the passes through the box, but it leaves too much open space for the top forward to have to rotate over in the 1-1-2 formation. It also leaves the crease vulnerable when a defenseman has to go out to challenge a shot at the top of the circle.

I really think peb should be higher than plind.
- JoeRussomanno

No way, neither is A-Mac. I've been dragging the franchise down with my mis-guided negativity.

Didn't know it was up to me to prove it.
- YuenglingJagr

Well, you said he changed so yeah, some examples of how he changed would be nice.

I made a comment he has changed and nothing was said to refute that from what I saw.

But you gave no support for your opinion. That's what I asked for.

I think it is clear from the 8 or so blue jackets games I have seen this season, but since you guys seem to value the opinion of "experts" in the league...here is something a quick google reveals...
http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...aced-change-blue-jackets/

Fine examples, despite not being your insight gained from the couple handfuls of games you've seen.

And for the record, I was sincerely asking about how he's changed. I loved when he was the NYR coach if for no other reason than his post-game scrums. They were fantastic. I would've loved for him to be the Flyers coach.

Dave Hakstol and Ron Hextall should be relieved of their duties. Claude Julien who is a well respected coach got fired despite being much better than Hakstol. Flyers hockey is going down the shatter with accepting all these losses. When you do not get results from your star players heads must roll and that starts with the coach or GM. Giroux, Voracek, Schenn and now Simmonds are in a funk for the last 20 games. I am not too proud of what is happening to my lifelong team. This accepting defeat with grace has to stop and no better way than to fire Hakstol for starters. My rant for the day but man that guy looks lost behind the bench.
- joegreif17

we want to fire Hextall now? JFC

I really think peb should be higher than plind.
- JoeRussomanno

I cant argue with that but VdV Zombie is a bigger issue then Plnd or PEB .. lol

we want to fire Hextall now? JFC
- nastyflyergirl

Patience is required for what Hexy is trying to do/build & many seem to not be willing to go down that road.

we want to fire Hextall now? JFC
- nastyflyergirl

lol ikr

I can't speak for everyone who was opposed to the Bellemare deal, but I didn't like it due more to the process than the result. It's not like the deal will impede the team's ability to make other moves. It will likely have no effect on any of the future moves either.

On a macro level, I'm concerned about their NHL talent evaluations though. They see value in Bellemare when his primary responsibilities haven't been handled well. The PK remains a weakness while the 4th line hasn't contributed much and continues to be outscored by a wide margin (Bellemare's even strength goal differential rate is only better than Vandevelde's over the last two seasons).

There really is no rational explanation for keeping Bellemare unless the team believes it's his linemates bringing him down (then why keep playing Vandevelde), his coach using him incorrectly on the PK (then why retain Lappy) or that he'll improve (he's in his 30s).

So why do people complain about him? Because replacing him is an easy and logical thing to do. It's much easier to find a better 4th line PKer than it is to find another top line center. Just because one thing is an issue doesn't mean the other isn't.

Also, using Bellemare on the 4th line hurts the team, but it's not that big of a deal because he doesn't log that many minutes. Using Bellemare and Vandevelde on the pk IS a big deal because a team is most likely to concede a goal when they're shorthanded, so using your two worst forwards for that stretch is going to result in more goals against (logic!).

In the end, Bellemare probably won't matter, but watching Hexy place more value on grit (Weise, Gordon, Bellemare) rather than skill is concerning about the future.
- PhillySportsGuy

Can't say I disagree....the last paragraph is telling. Grit is easier to see and add....Skill and growrth of skill is much, much tougher to predict and so far Hextall's grade is Incomplete when it comes to adding young skilled players.

I don't really like their system either because it gives too much time and space to the most skilled players on the opposing team. They don't really execute it well either. It's designed to force shots from weak areas, but they don't do a good enough job of funneling pucks out there.
- PhillySportsGuy

Did you know that Coots-Simmer are both top 5 in the league in shot suppressing on the PK? The PEB-VDV unit is bottom third in the league. They actually yield over 30 more shots per 60 than Coots-Simmer. Surprisingly enough, the Coots-Simmer pair creates twice the shots for too. It's always noticeable how many SH chances they get in comparison to the guys who are among league worst 5v5 scoring. Small wonder we're the (first or second, I forget) worst team in SH goals for over the last few years. If you even care about face-offs, PEB is the lowest of all centers in d-zone starts at 42% and 37% on the PK. It's amazing how they use them on the PK.

Patience is required for what Hexy is trying to do/build & many seem to not be willing to go down that road.
- ob18

Probably because all it is to this point is prospects and promises.

Well, you said he changed so yeah, some examples of how he changed would be nice.



But you gave no support for your opinion. That's what I asked for.



Fine examples, despite not being your insight gained from the couple handfuls of games you've seen.

And for the record, I was sincerely asking about how he's changed. I loved when he was the NYR coach if for no other reason than his post-game scrums. They were fantastic. I would've loved for him to be the Flyers coach.
- Scoob

I love Tortorella. He's been a very good coach, and he is extremely entertaining. Probably a pain to play for, but I don't.

Speaking of short sighted your name come to the top of my list. The Hakstol experiment has expired and it has failed big time. No production from the star players and most importantly no wins and no playoffs. A good coach needs to be a steady positive influence that motivates players. Has Hakstol motivated anyone?? I will use this example, if Mike Babcock was coaching the Flyers this year we would be in the playoffs, guaranteed!
- joegreif17

Yah!! sucks they didnt make the playoffs last season..sucks they have no wins this season..

All that being said...

What does firing Hak right now at this point in the season get you?

Hakstol coached the team to the playoffs last season.
- MJL

Stop living in the past like Hextall. Julien won a Stanley Cup. If your not getting the job done no matter who you are you should be replaced. It is all about what you are doing now for the team now. I imagine you are still gloating about going to the finals in 2010 but this is now MJL.
I see Giroux being like Eric Staal, stagnant in Carolina and a change of scenery has revived him in Minny.

I could live with guys like PEB and VdV if they were actually good at penalty killing, but sadly, like the rest of their game, their PK skills are mediocre at best.

I hate the Flyers whole crappy passive PK system, it's just not that effective. Historically all of their best PK pairs have been aggressive. From Clarke/Barber to Poulin/Propp to Brindamour/Podein to Primeau/Kapanen to Richards/Gagne to Betts/Lappy they've all pressured the opposition and created loads of shorthanded chances.

This is why I want Lappy replaced, I want an aggressive PK
- BiggE

But yet he coaches a passive kill WTF!

you clearly dont get the point. It has never ever been said by any one that it is the issue.
- ggunky

Yeah I don't know how I missed it? This is the first and only time our 4th line had been discussed. Way over my head.

I love Tortorella. He's been a very good coach, and he is extremely entertaining. Probably a pain to play for, but I don't.
- MJL

I agree with this 100%

Patience is required for what Hexy is trying to do/build & many seem to not be willing to go down that road.
- ob18

If he doesn't get multiple snipers soon, you're going to be leading the angry mob. We know your game, ob. No tricking us.

I guess I should have explained my thoughts better in that section. I don't necessarily mean this as Hexy not valuing skill. I meant it more in terms of mis-evaluating team needs this past offseason. He wanted to add grit and size when the team needed more skill.

I guess I feel like a team ALWAYS could use more skill.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't disagree and understand what you mean about more skill.

I would like to see a comparison of the Flyers' 4th line compared to others around the league. Much like they did in this article: http://www.stanleycupofch...ng-to-change-nhl-thinking

When you look at the Flyers' 4th line compared to other teams (at least in that article), they seem right in the middle of the pack, on average.

Did you know that Coots-Simmer are both top 5 in the league in shot suppressing on the PK? The PEB-VDV unit is bottom third in the league. They actually yield over 30 more shots per 60 than Coots-Simmer. Surprisingly enough, the Coots-Simmer pair creates twice the shots for too. It's always noticeable how many SH chances they get in comparison to the guys who are among league worst 5v5 scoring. Small wonder we're the (first or second, I forget) worst team in SH goals for over the last few years. If you even care about face-offs, PEB is the lowest of all centers in d-zone starts at 42% and 37% on the PK. And he always gets those starts. It's amazing.
- Mononoke

Vandevelde and Bellemare have played almost twice as much ice time as Couturier and Simmonds have, which means they almost undoubtedly see more of the oppositions top PP. Bellemare has never been as strong faceoff guy SH. That's a legit criticism.

Yah!! sucks they didnt make the playoffs last season..sucks they have no wins this season..

All that being said...

What does firing Hak right now at this point in the season get you?
- opeth_pa

It gets you nothing I agree but it gives you a fresh start with hope. Maybe you are right and Hakstol will get fired at the end of the season but I think his fate is sealed on way or the other. If he is coaching this team next fall and the same shat is happening I will be finding a new team. Life it too short to cheer for a bunch of frigging moronic losers.

Stop living in the past like Hextall. Julien won a Stanley Cup. If your not getting the job done no matter who you are you should be replaced. It is all about what you are doing now for the team now. I imagine you are still gloating about going to the finals in 2010 but this is now MJL.
I see Giroux being like Eric Staal, stagnant in Carolina and a change of scenery has revived him in Minny.
- joegreif17

So a coach should be evaluated every single season, as to whether he should be fired or not? Hakstol is not going to be fired, nor should he be.