How do you account for players such as Schenn, Simmonds, and Gostisbehere putting up solid point/60 numbers last season, under the same coach? Schenn had a career year last year under Hakstol. Gostisbehere put up top 15 among defenseman playing 400 minutes or more, in points/60. Couturier and Schenn were top 60 among forwards.
- MJL

Hakstol forgot how to coach.
Blame Hakstol.

In the meantime, before his recent mini-surge, Sam went goalless from Dec. 23 to March 4. I am sure Flyers fans would have patiently withstood it and fully supported him remaining in the lineup.
- bmeltzer

and boom goes the dynamite

how could you talk about that at a time like this?
- YuenglingJagr

fine. your team makes organizationally dumb decisions and is allergic to guys with skill. however, i dont think hextall has done that bad overall given certain cataclysmic variables that have appeared to fall in his lap. please win tonight even though you wont.


better?

And who would have relinquished those roles that Gagner would have had here?

The Flyers were still diddling around with trying Brayden Schenn at center as of very recently. Where would Gagner have fit here? It's not like you can stash him on a checking line. Gagner is not a big guy.

Maybe Gagner is who everyone thought he was and he's playing over his head temporarily to stay in the league? It's not like he's any kind of a sure thing.
- johndewar

It'sike bill said, if he went goal less for three months everyone, including myself would have had a poop, so im not sweating that move.

And who would have relinquished those roles that Gagner would have had here?

The Flyers were still diddling around with trying Brayden Schenn at center as of very recently. Where would Gagner have fit here? It's not like you can stash him on a checking line. Gagner is not a big guy.

Maybe Gagner is who everyone thought he was and he's playing over his head temporarily to stay in the league? It's not like he's any kind of a sure thing.
- johndewar

love this

fine. your team makes organizationally dumb decisions and is allergic to guys with skill. however, i dont think hextall has done that bad overall given certain cataclysmic variables that have appeared to fall in his lap. please win tonight even though you wont.


better?
- stayinthefnnet

Are you talking about hockey or some quantum physics r&d project?

fine. your team makes organizationally dumb decisions and is allergic to guys with skill. however, i dont think hextall has done that bad overall given certain cataclysmic variables that have appeared to fall in his lap. please win tonight even though you wont.


better?
- stayinthefnnet

i cant tell if you're serious or sarcastic, so I am just going to assume you think Hextall sucks

Schenn and Ghost's numbers were inflated by unsustainable shooting percentages last season. In order to reduce variability, I increased the sample size. Pretty SOP. Hak has been here for almost two years. Why would I limit myself to one year of data, when I could just combine both years?

It also doesn't help that the one player that left, Gagner, is now having a much better season while the one player who joined the team, Weise, is having a much less productive season.

I guess the real argument you can make is that the team consists of mostly players 25+, which means they're all leaving their prime, so point production is expected to decrease. I tend to believe it's a combination of both that and scheme.
- PhillySportsGuy

So it's due to Gagner, who struggled here, leaving? Seriously? The point is that those players were able to succeed under the same coach, same system, etc. The Flyers offensive struggles have zero to do with the scheme they play. Hakstol is not immune from some of the fault here, but he is not solely at fault here. In my opinion this team's struggles are due to factors that a high school coach could see, as well as the team's top offensive catalyst struggling badly.

So it's due to Gagner, who struggled here, leaving? Seriously? The point is that those players were able to succeed under the same coach, same system, etc. The Flyers offensive struggles have zero to do with the scheme they play. Hakstol is not immune from some of the fault here, but he is not solely at fault here. In my opinion this team's struggles are due to factors that a high school coach could see, as well as the team's top offensive catalyst struggling badly.
- MJL

imo I dont think Jake Voracek is struggling

I believe he was interested and judging by his current salary, I don't think it would have taken a ton of convincing.

Either way, it is still an indictment on Hak for not using him properly.

I guess I just don't get why people are always so upset to hear anyone question the management or coaching staff. They haven't done enough good things for me to blindly accept every move and withhold criticism.
- PhillySportsGuy

Interesting that it's not an indictment on the player, for not playing well. So tell me, when a player is not playing well, how do we decide if that is on the player, or the coach? Whatever particular narrative one wants to float?

There should be a balance and enough blame to go around, to blindly blame the coach, is just as bad as blindly accepting every move, and withhold criticism.

And who would have relinquished those roles that Gagner would have had here?

The Flyers were still diddling around with trying Brayden Schenn at center as of very recently. Where would Gagner have fit here? It's not like you can stash him on a checking line. Gagner is not a big guy.

Maybe Gagner is who everyone thought he was and he's playing over his head temporarily to stay in the league? It's not like he's any kind of a sure thing.
- johndewar

Schenn has never been a good center though. The fact that they still can't see that is all the more troubling. How many more minutes does he need at center before they realize he can't cut it there?

Gagner wouldn't be playing on the "checking" line. He'd be playing in a depth scoring role. Couturier is the "checking" line and takes care of the toughest assignments each night. The next toughest assignment goes to Giroux. This isn't the 90s anymore. Teams don't build a 3rd line of defensive players to match up against opposing top lines.

Gagner may end up flaming out after this year. I'm just saying there have been several things that have happened over the last couple seasons that would suggest there is a problem with their NHL scouting or their head coach or both.

I think Jagr left a bigger void than Hartnell. They made a mistake thinking Vinny could replace the leadership lost from Briere and Jagr. It was compounded by Timonen's blood clot situation/retirement. Simmonds and Voracek have stepped up as leaders but no one else on the current roster really has. Mason tried but I don't know what's going on behind the scenes with him. Looks like Bellemare is getting a chance to do so.

Hartnell being moved has opened up a lot of opportunities for Schenn's development, mainly on the power play. The move was made for the more disciplined direction this team wanted to go in. Not sure I agree with it because this team seems to lack intensity the last couple seasons. Their lack of identity seems to root back to the off season when Hartnell was moved.
- Baxter27

The culture change the Flyers are trying to install of fast skating and more discipline feels so square peg in round hole. Outside of Berube being a meathead in attitude, I don't see much difference in on ice style of play. We might have well kept Berube four seasons.

There is something to be said about a team who can crash and bang and just play without worrying about taking a penalty. I feel like the Flyers were once this. Than the message became not to do this. Penalties were made more aware than ever. Now we're at where we are now.

imo I dont think Jake Voracek is struggling
- YuenglingJagr

Voracek has scored 6 goals in 67 games at 5 on 5.

I'll take Filppula over Gagner. Even if the move came 2 months too late. Gagner may only be making 650K now but he will not be settling for that or a single year term this off season.

It's so easy to point to Vandevelde, Bellemare and Weise and say we could've signed Gagner instead. I doubt Hextall was even considering any of those guys when deciding whether to sign Gagner. The guys he was looking at were Cousins and Laughton. Both failed to grasp the role Gagner would've played which has now lead to the acquisition of Filppula.

Schenn has never been a good center though. The fact that they still can't see that is all the more troubling. How many more minutes does he need at center before they realize he can't cut it there?

Gagner wouldn't be playing on the "checking" line. He'd be playing in a depth scoring role. Couturier is the "checking" line and takes care of the toughest assignments each night. The next toughest assignment goes to Giroux. This isn't the 90s anymore. Teams don't build a 3rd line of defensive players to match up against opposing top lines.

Gagner may end up flaming out after this year. I'm just saying there have been several things that have happened over the last couple seasons that would suggest there is a problem with their NHL scouting or their head coach or both.
- PhillySportsGuy

As for the depth scoring role....maybe the thought was to have younger guys, guys that might have a future with the team, fill that role? Like Nick Cousins? Or even Laughton before he got hurt early?

I don't disagree with your overall premise.

I'm just not sure Sam Gagner is the hill to die on to prove it.

So it's due to Gagner, who struggled here, leaving? Seriously? The point is that those players were able to succeed under the same coach, same system, etc. The Flyers offensive struggles have zero to do with the scheme they play. Hakstol is not immune from some of the fault here, but he is not solely at fault here. In my opinion this team's struggles are due to factors that a high school coach could see, as well as the team's top offensive catalyst struggling badly.
- MJL

I think we're all ignoring the obvious answer. If you're in center city, he's looking right at you. That's right, it's William Penn. He's still PO'ed!

love this
- YuenglingJagr

I'm glad!

imo I dont think Jake Voracek is struggling
- YuenglingJagr

Voracek is struggling. It's just that he's less obvious about it as Giroux.

Schenn has never been a good center though. The fact that they still can't see that is all the more troubling. How many more minutes does he need at center before they realize he can't cut it there?


- PhillySportsGuy

Hextall just added a player in a trade to play what position. I think what's troubling is all the factors that you ignore. Such as the trade For Filppula. You claim that the Flyers don't take chances on the right kind of players such as Gagner, when they did the very thing with the same exact player, the season before. Sometimes a player is forced into a position out of necessity. While that player may not be placed in the ideal position for that player, but placed there out of team need.

Hakstol forgot how to coach.
Blame Hakstol.
- Scoob

Hmmm is the curve of coaching college hockey vs pro hockey vastly different then college hoops to nba?
Maybe there was a reason why hak was first college coach to make the leap since players were not wearing helmets.
Maybe hockey does not translate like hoops coaches...

Interesting that it's not an indictment on the player, for not playing well. So tell me, when a player is not playing well, how do we decide if that is on the player, or the coach? Whatever particular narrative one wants to float?

There should be a balance and enough blame to go around, to blindly blame the coach, is just as bad as blindly accepting every move, and withhold criticism.
- MJL

I don't believe Gagner is any different now than he was last year. I just think he's been put in a better position to succeed. His numbers really aren't that different from what he was doing in his Oiler days.

We're making this too much about Gagner. The main premise of what I'm saying is why are the players on this team struggling to score so much over the last two years and why is the guy they had no use for excelling in a different place? Look for the common variable!

The culture change the Flyers are trying to install of fast skating and more discipline feels so square peg in round hole. Outside of Berube being a meathead in attitude, I don't see much difference in on ice style of play. We might have well kept Berube four seasons.

There is something to be said about a team who can crash and bang and just play without worrying about taking a penalty. I feel like the Flyers were once this. Than the message became not to do this. Penalties were made more aware than ever. Now we're at where we are now.
- SuperSchennBros

Flyers were a team which thrived when getting their opponents off their game. They ended up in the box a lot but had pretty strong penalty killing to deal with it. I'm not advocating being a goon squad but they need some sort of identity because they're in limbo right now. If I were to give them an identity it would be PP specialists which also goes through it's cold streaks.

I assume Hextall's vision is a big fast skilled team who is strong in transition with better support from the back end. They don't have the horses for this right now.

Voracek has scored 6 goals in 67 games at 5 on 5.
- MJL

oh sorry, i thought you said offensive catalyst

i cant tell if you're serious or sarcastic, so I am just going to assume you think Hextall sucks
- YuenglingJagr

no i think hextall has done very well in his moves that he has done. however being able to repeatedly turn a dollar into six quarters doesnt do much when confronted with the issue of your house burning down.

I'll take Filppula over Gagner. Even if the move came 2 months too late. Gagner may only be making 650K now but he will not be settling for that or a single year term this off season.

It's so easy to point to Vandevelde, Bellemare and Weise and say we could've signed Gagner instead. I doubt Hextall was even considering any of those guys when deciding whether to sign Gagner. The guys he was looking at were Cousins and Laughton. Both failed to grasp the role Gagner would've played which has now lead to the acquisition of Filppula.
- Baxter27

the jackets have injuries at C...he has not played C all year for them. I think the answer to the Filppula vs Gagner debates is why not both?