Recalculated my numbers I had posted earlier this season.

66 games into the season, here's the Eichel-split

First 21 games, without Eichel

7-9-5
38 goals for (1.81 per game)
50 goals against (2.38 per game)


45 games since Eichel's return
20-18-7
127 goals for (2.82 per game)
134 goals against (3.64 per game)


Scoring over 1 goal more per game, but NOW they're also allowing about 1.25 more per game than prior. Through 46 games, when I posted before, they were at 2.84 scored per game and 2.92 allowed per game, so their last 20 games has skewed that entire 25 game stretch enough to move up 0.7 goals per game allowed...

Has nothing to do with what players he moved, he rushed to be mediocre. We would have been a bottom 2-3 team last year picking Laine, Matthews or JP last year without ROR, Kane, etc.

Now we are up against the cap with a few pretty good players wondering if Brendan Guhle will bring us to the promise land. It's amazing really.
- sbroads24

Yes, that would have been possible, but it also would have been possible to have been picking 4th or 5th and ending up with none of those 3.

Yes, that would have been possible, but it also would have been possible to have been picking 4th or 5th and ending up with none of those 3.
- kingcong39

and if we don't trade for Kane we don't bottom out and might not have Eichel.

Yes, that would have been possible, but it also would have been possible to have been picking 4th or 5th and ending up with none of those 3.
- kingcong39

And drafting potential 1-2 d men in Sergachev or Joulevi? Sure.

And drafting potential 1-2 d men in Sergachev or Joulevi? Sure.
- sbroads24

I get what you are saying, and I agree more so on being able to keep all three 1st round picks in 2015 as the main component of the argument.

I think it will take more.

Hopefully the first and something like Girgs or Larsson or even Foligno.

But maybe 23.
- Der Kaiser

You already know a 1st+ a player we're not ready to give up is going to be the cost. But if that's Sam Reinhart, it better be Roman Josi.

and if we don't trade for Kane we don't bottom out and might not have Eichel.
- jzabawa

I've long thought that but just as there is no proof that being bad last year would have assured a top 3 pick, there is no proof to say they would not have been last if they had kept Myers and Stafford, despite how HORRIBLE the Coyotes were the second half of the season.

From the Pens blogger -

"The Buffalo Sabres have some nice pieces up front. They have two very good centers in Jack Eichel and Ryan O’Reilly. They both scored goals in the first period. However, they can’t do it all. The Sabres lack functional depth and their defense corp. is not good enough for them to find regular success. Too many of their players are asked to be in a role above what they can handle. None more glaring than Rasmus Ristolainen. He isn’t a top pairing defender at the present moment (or maybe ever), but that is how the Sabres deploy him. He routinely plays out of his own end and last night was no exception. He needs a sheltered role on a team that cannot afford to give him one. Penguins fans should be able to understand this situation. They have seen firsthand how deployment can impact a player with Justin Schultz. The former Oiler went through similar growing pains until he was able to be thrust into a more appropriate role with the Penguins."

I think it will take more.

Hopefully the first and something like Girgs or Larsson or even Foligno.

But maybe 23.
- Der Kaiser

Call up Nylander for a few games to be sure, but I would be offering the 2017 1st & Nylander as a starting point.

I know, I know regarding that, but the need for defense is so profoundly obvious and if it comes down to either Reinhart or Nylander going, well, that decision is EASY.

Recalculated my numbers I had posted earlier this season.

66 games into the season, here's the Eichel-split

First 21 games, without Eichel

7-9-5
38 goals for (1.81 per game)
50 goals against (2.38 per game)


45 games since Eichel's return
20-18-7
127 goals for (2.82 per game)
134 goals against (3.64 per game)


Scoring over 1 goal more per game, but NOW they're also allowing about 1.25 more per game than prior. Through 46 games, when I posted before, they were at 2.84 scored per game and 2.92 allowed per game, so their last 20 games has skewed that entire 25 game stretch enough to move up 0.7 goals per game allowed...
- stashu

I think those analytics alone show how absolutely dynamic Eichel truly is. The entire team plays a different style with him in the lineup. He's not exactly a 200' player yet, but it would be silly to insinuate (you're not) that he's to blame, solely, for the extra gpg allowed.

Recalculated my numbers I had posted earlier this season.

66 games into the season, here's the Eichel-split

First 21 games, without Eichel

7-9-5
38 goals for (1.81 per game)
50 goals against (2.38 per game)


45 games since Eichel's return
20-18-7
127 goals for (2.82 per game)
134 goals against (3.64 per game)


Scoring over 1 goal more per game, but NOW they're also allowing about 1.25 more per game than prior. Through 46 games, when I posted before, they were at 2.84 scored per game and 2.92 allowed per game, so their last 20 games has skewed that entire 25 game stretch enough to move up 0.7 goals per game allowed...
- stashu

Is it just me or is the defense worse when everyone is healthy?

From the Pens blogger -

"The Buffalo Sabres have some nice pieces up front. They have two very good centers in Jack Eichel and Ryan O’Reilly. They both scored goals in the first period. However, they can’t do it all. The Sabres lack functional depth and their defense corp. is not good enough for them to find regular success. Too many of their players are asked to be in a role above what they can handle. None more glaring than Rasmus Ristolainen. He isn’t a top pairing defender at the present moment (or maybe ever), but that is how the Sabres deploy him. He routinely plays out of his own end and last night was no exception. He needs a sheltered role on a team that cannot afford to give him one. Penguins fans should be able to understand this situation. They have seen firsthand how deployment can impact a player with Justin Schultz. The former Oiler went through similar growing pains until he was able to be thrust into a more appropriate role with the Penguins."
- sbroads24

What took you so long on bringing that up? I was certain you would copy and paste that immediately after reading his comment on Ristolainen.

I don't agree at all regarding functional depth in terms of the forwards. I think they have enough there right now.

The defense, on the other hand, is vomitus.

I get what you are saying, and I agree more so on being able to keep all three 1st round picks in 2015 as the main component of the argument.
- kingcong39

The crazy thing is the ROR trade I don't care what we gave up. I think the Kane trade is wash if we resign him (which I think we should) and the Lehner deal is getting easier to accept now that I believe he is our goalie moving forward. Rebuilding expectations were accelerated with ROR & Kane trades, but where is all this organization depth he speaks of? Sabres are still failing to develop talent.

Is it just me or is the defense worse when everyone is healthy?
- Buffalo--Sabres

Choice A

Kulikov, Bogosian, Gorges

Choice B

Falk, Fedun, Guhle

What Sabres fan isn't taking Choice B?

There's absolutely no question that needs to be the route to pursue.
- TheSabresTaco

I don't think it will bring much in return. We will be picking (7-10) in a weak draft.

Is it just me or is the defense worse when everyone is healthy?
- Buffalo--Sabres

When Gorges, Franson, Bogo and Kulikov all play they are BAD

Falk and Fedun had better results

Call up Nylander for a few games to be sure, but I would be offering the 2017 1st & Nylander as a starting point.

I know, I know regarding that, but the need for defense is so profoundly obvious and if it comes down to either Reinhart or Nylander going, well, that decision is EASY.
- kingcong39

I have no problem trading Reinhart or Nylander for defense if you don't believe that they are part of the "core". Do you see either being part of the core?

The crazy thing is the ROR trade I don't care what we gave up. I think the Kane trade is wash if we resign him (which I think we should) and the Lehner deal is getting easier to accept now that I believe he is our goalie moving forward. Rebuilding expectations were accelerated with ROR & Kane trades, but where is all this organization depth he speaks of? Sabres are still failing to develop talent.
- jzabawa

Agree to disagree on the bold above.

Girgensons, Bailey, and Rodrigues have played well and been good supporting players, which is all they need to be with the others the team has.

I think the team is 2 quality defenders and perhaps one more quality winger away, and yes I know that will be no easy feat to get.

I get what you are saying, and I agree more so on being able to keep all three 1st round picks in 2015 as the main component of the argument.
- kingcong39

My point is that 90,9, and 40 weren't once in a lifetime gets. But Murray treated them as such.

We were better off taking a slow approach to the rebuild.

Who do you think is worth more right now to acquire a D man, Colin White or Lehner?

He sort of bungled the first 2 years here, and is paying for it now

I have no problem trading Reinhart or Nylander for defense if you don't believe that they are part of the "core". Do you see either being part of the core?
- jzabawa

I know there is some Reinhart dislike, but he is absolutely a core player to me, especially based on his current production, possible future production, and the fact he will not cost a ton for a while.

Nylander, on the other hand, is a logical choice going the other way in a deal for a quality D player.

while I agree with you on this, just don't think it will happen. Somebody might take a chance on Bogo, but not the other two.

While I'm not a fan of 47 and prefer him gone, I wouldn't care if he was in our 3rd pairing.
- jzabawa

I agree I can live with 47 but 63 and 26 need to go.

Choice A

Kulikov, Bogosian, Gorges

Choice B

Falk, Fedun, Guhle

What Sabres fan isn't taking Choice B?
- kingcong39

I think expectations are different for both groups. If you suck with choice B, you can just say oh well. Choice A, not so much. You're paying them to be an effective group. I want not part of Gorges or Franson next year.

Agree to disagree on the bold above.

Girgensons, Bailey, and Rodrigues have played well and been good supporting players, which is all they need to be with the others the team has.

I think the team is 2 quality defenders and perhaps one more quality winger away, and yes I know that will be no easy feat to get.
- kingcong39

No thanks to GMTM throwing around 1st rounders that we had accumulated.

My point is that 90,9, and 40 weren't once in a lifetime gets. But Murray treated them as such.

We were better off taking a slow approach to the rebuild.

Who do you think is worth more right now to acquire a D man, Colin White or Lehner?

He sort of bungled the first 2 years here, and is paying for it now
- sbroads24

As I said, I get the point you are making and can agree on being able to keep all the top end 2015 draft picks.

Not sure which once in a lifetime get was out there. Subban? Shea Weber?

I agree I can live with 47 but 63 and 26 need to go.
- SABRES 89

The only reason Bogosian is number 1 on my list of those to offload is due to the cost and length of his deal.