While some posters and bloggers need to pay more attention to the effect on certain stats that the team one plays on can have, you can't just dismiss every good stat "because he plays on a great team".

Great teams are generally collections of.... wait for it..... a lot of great players.
- prock

I just have a hard time believing he's a better player than Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, etc.

This is the first time he's been in the Top 50 in dman scoring (meanwhile all those other guys are perennially in the top 50). Those other guys are also known for their defensive acumen while Orlov is not. Sure he's having a great year (on as James has put it "the best team ever assembled"), but that doesn't make him a better player than those guys. Sorry one good year does not make you a better player, especially when it's on an absurdly stacked team.

Here is James being smarter than everyone else again.

James thinks he's great cause his stats are great cause he plays on a great team, not from watching him play.
- NugentHallberle

Well it's not not true.
- James_Tanner

Fixed.

I just have a hard time believing he's a better player than Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, etc.

This is the first time he's been in the Top 50 in dman scoring (meanwhile all those other guys are perennially in the top 50). Those other guys are also known for their defensive acumen while Orlov is not. Sure he's having a great year (on as James has put it "the best team ever assembled"), but that doesn't make him a better player than those guys. Sorry one good year does not make you a better player, especially when it's on an absurdly stacked team.
- NugentHallberle

I agree.

But there is an in-between. A number one dman doesn't necessarily have to be better than those guys. Those are elite guys. They're good dmen, not better than the Suter, Doughty, Weber, Hedman, et al, but still number 1s this year. Even if you can't agree with the idea that they've been more than good enough to just be a number 1, I really don't see it as scoff-worthy.

I agree.

But there is an in-between. A number one dman doesn't necessarily have to be better than those guys. Those are elite guys. They're good dmen, not better than the Suter, Doughty, Weber, Hedman, et al, but still number 1s this year. Even if you can't agree with the idea that they've been more than good enough to just be a number 1, I really don't see it as scoff-worthy.
- prock

Yeah I never said he wasn't a #1, I said he's not better than those elite guys.

I get he's just trying generate more conversation cause he gets paid more, but trolling isn't the way to do it.. It's pathetic.

I just have a hard time believing he's a better player than Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, etc.

This is the first time he's been in the Top 50 in dman scoring (meanwhile all those other guys are perennially in the top 50). Those other guys are also known for their defensive acumen while Orlov is not. Sure he's having a great year (on as James has put it "the best team ever assembled"), but that doesn't make him a better player than those guys. Sorry one good year does not make you a better player, especially when it's on an absurdly stacked team.
- NugentHallberle

If you put quotes around something, that means you aren't paraphrasing. Since I never said that, that means you're lying.

I agree.

But there is an in-between. A number one dman doesn't necessarily have to be better than those guys. Those are elite guys. They're good dmen, not better than the Suter, Doughty, Weber, Hedman, et al, but still number 1s this year. Even if you can't agree with the idea that they've been more than good enough to just be a number 1, I really don't see it as scoff-worthy.
- prock

Anyone who thinks that Weber or Sutuer or Keith is "elite" at this point has no right to be in this conversation because you're clearly just going by reputation. Those guys are OK it's not like they suck, but they're shadows of what they once were.

Come on now, man...

Orlov and Niksy are awesome dmen, but they ARE NOT #1 dmen.

Doughty, Subban, Burns, Weber, Karlsson, Letang, Vatanen and Hedman; these are #1 dmen.

Orlov and Nisky should not be mentioned in the same breath of any of those guys. Very good, yes, they are high-end 2nd pairing dmen, not #1 dmen.
- Rinosaur

Iv'e said it a million times, but

Niskanen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carlson.

Orlov has been good for a number of years now. This year he is being given more ice time and responsibility. Defensively, he's been solid since coming over and it wasn't until recently that his offensive game has grown.

Whether he's a #1 or a #500, he's been very good this year.

Number of defensemen in the top-ten in goals, assists and points over the past seven seasons, including new Caps blueliner Kevin Shattenkirk (10th in goals with 66, 9th in assists with 218 and 9th in points with 284). The other four defensemen are Erik Karlsson, Dustin Byfuglien, Kris Letang and P.K. Subban.

Interesting little information. Numbers aren't everything, but...

Anyone who thinks that Weber or Sutuer or Keith is "elite" at this point has no right to be in this conversation because you're clearly just going by reputation. Those guys are OK it's not like they suck, but they're shadows of what they once were.
- James_Tanner

Haha I guess playing 25 minutes a night and being in the top 25 in scoring for d-men makes you not elite...

Yeah I'd rather have the guy that plays 19 min a night and is 40th in scoring (Orlov). Makes sense.

Interesting little information. Numbers aren't everything, but...
- Blackstrom2

I'd argue at least 3 out of 5 of those names are defensive liabilities...

I'd argue at least 3 out of 5 of those names are defensive liabilities...
- NugentHallberle

You'd be wrong.

You'd be wrong.
- Blackstrom2

Can tell you I've watched enough Blues games to know that Shattenkirk is.

Anyone who thinks that Weber or Sutuer or Keith is "elite" at this point has no right to be in this conversation because you're clearly just going by reputation. Those guys are OK it's not like they suck, but they're shadows of what they once were.
- James_Tanner

They're declining no doubt. I think they've probably excluded themselves from the elite group, yeah. How far they have, is a matter of interpretation. They're still pretty damn good. They're all in their early 30s (31-33), so they're on their decline, but really semi-early in it, following the normal path. So you may be jumping the gun a little with "shadows of their former self", at this point.

WSH definitely has one of the top three or four best d-cores in the league right now... Nisky and Orlov are still not #1 dmen lol.

WSH definitely has one of the top three or four best d-cores in the league right now... Nisky and Orlov are still not #1 dmen lol.
- Rinosaur

If Niskanen isn't a number one dman, but is 4th in 5v5 scoring and in the top 20 in possession, how exactly does a guy earn this mysterious title?

If Niskanen isn't a number one dman, but is 4th in 5v5 scoring and in the top 20 in possession, how exactly does a guy earn this mysterious title?
- James_Tanner

to be fair, some might like to see more of a track record.

But, I'm with you on this, I have a hard time justifying how anyone can say he hasn't been of that caliber THIS YEAR.

WSH definitely has one of the top three or four best d-cores in the league right now... Nisky and Orlov are still not #1 dmen lol.
- Rinosaur

Niskanen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carlson.

Anyone who thinks that Weber or Sutuer or Keith is "elite" at this point has no right to be in this conversation because you're clearly just going by reputation. Those guys are OK it's not like they suck, but they're shadows of what they once were.
- James_Tanner

Tanner at his best. All 3 are elite. No doubt.

The dynamic of what happens when a player is traded is very interesting. The fans of the player's former team, who would've defended the player to the hilt, will now post the players weaknesses and are glad he was traded! It's funny sometimes.

We can debate where each defenseman on Washington ranks in defenseman hierarchy until the cows come home. All that matters is that their defense core, is dam fricken good.