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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Stadium Series Wrap: All-too-Familiar Story in Flyers' 4-2 Loss to Pens
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J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Feb 27 @ 8:23 AM ET
Your pretty much spot on, here is my take of the five biggest reasons this team is struggling

1. Goaltending
Night in and night out they are simply not getting good enough goaltending to win consistently at the NHL level. Both goalies have given up way too many momentum crushing soft goals. This would be difficult for a top team to overcome, let alone a bubble team like the Flyers

2. Giroux
Claude Giroux, for whatever reason, has simply not produced at the level that he needs to in order for this team to succeed. It really is that simple.

3. Lack of overall depth
They just aren't good enough to win consistently unless all 18 skaters are performing well and they are getting above average goaltending. Look at the center position as a good example. After Giroux, who is having a terrible season and Couturier, they have no one who has any business centering a top 3 line in the NHL. On D, they have one legit top 3 Dman, and he's a just turned 20 year old rookie. They are also thin at LW and the goalies have been bad. RW is the only position with any real quality and depth.

4. Coaching
When I say coaching, I'm not just talking about Hakstol, though I'll get to him in a minute. The PK is too passive and has been ever since Lappy started running it. The pp, under Joe Mullen, has become stale and predicable. Yeah, he's finally made some adjustments over the last couple of games, but you have to wonder why it took so long for him to do so. Now back to Hak. While I like his overall system and the style of play that he preaches, I have to disagree with a lot of lineups, and player usage. He doesn't seem to be improving at all in his 2nd NHL season, but, as I've stated before, I'd like to see what he can do with a lineup that can successfully play his system before making final judgement on him. However, that being said, the best coaches find a way to tailor their systems to better fit their personnel. Hak, much like Lavy, seems to have a hard time doing that.

5. They are not good enough at even strength
This is due primarily to their personnel. They have a general lack of speed, skill and size throughout the lineup and this causes them to struggle at ES. When that happens, you are forced to rely on special teams to have any chance to succeed. When you add in an average at best PK and poor goaltending, the pp, even when it's firing on all cylinders, which it hasn't done for much of this year, will not be enough to carry them.

- BiggE



Agree.

I didn't mention the goaltending but after Giroux it might be the the 1b reason this team just struggles.

They seem to give up a momentum deflating goal a game and just have not been consistent.

I know the question was if you don't resign one who would you like in FA. My option isn't a FA. I would look at Halak and see what the cost is. He has one more year left and could be a starter if needed next year.

arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Feb 27 @ 8:35 AM ET
If Drouin really is available, I hope Hexy is inquiring.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 27 @ 8:38 AM ET
Stay tuned for my 5 point analysis on why La La Land should've won best picture
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 27 @ 8:39 AM ET
Agree.

I didn't mention the goaltending but after Giroux it might be the the 1b reason this team just struggles.

They seem to give up a momentum deflating goal a game and just have not been consistent.

I know the question was if you don't resign one who would you like in FA. My option isn't a FA. I would look at Halak and see what the cost is. He has one more year left and could be a starter if needed next year.

- J35Bacher


I've definitely had my fill of the current goalies, but I don't think free agency is the only way to go. I would see what it would cost to acquire Mike Smith from Arizona. They are going nowhere next season, and he may be available in the right deal. With 2 years left on his deal, he'd be the perfect veteran bridge to the young prospects. Another guy to look at is Mark Andre Fleury. Perhaps a deal can be worked out with Vegas to take him in the expansion draft and then trade him to us. Yeah, he can be up and down, but when he is on, he's a damn good goalie. Plus, he also only has 2 years left on his deal so he wouldn't be blocking any of the kids and, if he plays really well, it would have the added bonus of driving Pens fans nuts!

In free agency, there are 2 guys I like depending on term and cost. The first is Bishop. If they can work out a deal for no more than 4 years, and front load it as much as allowed, I'd be very happy. If needed, they could move him after the 3rd season, as I doubt any of their 2 best prospects, Sandstrom & Hart, are ready to be NHL starters much before 20-21, and both should be on ELC's until then as well.

The other guy I'd look at is Ryan Miller. He is playing very well behind a pretty bad Vancouver team. He'll be 37 in July, so I doubt anyone is going to offer him a long term deal. But, if they could get him for one year (even if they have to overpay) or even 2, I'd be cool with that.

BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 27 @ 8:39 AM ET
Stay tuned for my 5 point analysis on why La La Land should've won best picture
- YuenglingJagr


This will be almost as exciting as a Craig Berube press conference.
arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Feb 27 @ 8:43 AM ET
Stay tuned for my 5 point analysis on why La La Land should've won best picture
- YuenglingJagr


I want some hot takes on the Oscars. I went and saw A Cure For Wellness instead of watching.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 27 @ 8:44 AM ET
I've definitely had my fill of the current goalies, but I don't think free agency is the only way to go. I would see what it would cost to acquire Mike Smith from Arizona. They are going nowhere next season, and he may be available in the right deal. With 2 years left on his deal, he'd be the perfect veteran bridge to the young prospects. Another guy to look at is Mark Andre Fleury. Perhaps a deal can be worked out with Vegas to take him in the expansion draft and then trade him to us. Yeah, he can be up and down, but when he is on, he's a damn good goalie. Plus, he also only has 2 years left on his deal so he wouldn't be blocking any of the kids and, if he plays really well, it would have the added bonus of driving Pens fans nuts!

In free agency, there are 2 guys I like depending on term and cost. The first is Bishop. If they can work out a deal for no more than 4 years, and front load it as much as allowed, I'd be very happy. If needed, they could move him after the 3rd season, as I doubt any of their 2 best prospects, Sandstrom & Hart, are ready to be NHL starters much before 20-21, and both should be on ELC's until then as well.

The other guy I'd look at is Ryan Miller. He is playing very well behind a pretty bad Vancouver team. He'll be 37 in July, so I doubt anyone is going to offer him a long term deal. But, if they could get him for one year (even if they have to overpay) or even 2, I'd be cool with that.

- BiggE



It would be foolish to give up any future quality assets in a trade for a goaltender to be a veteran bridge to the young prospects in my opinion. If they do it without giving up a future asset (draft pick, prospect) than fine, depending on what they give up.
jmdodgeser4
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.26.2009

Feb 27 @ 8:46 AM ET
If Drouin really is available, I hope Hexy is inquiring.
- arichardson22


He may...they must do something for cap relief but if they are moving drioun, or thinking about it, it wont happen till the offseason where more teams can get involved. Playoff teams are looking to add to the roster not remove a player for another. Kind of interesting though, because Arizona has lots of cap space to dump a contract, however, your going to pay for it. Like dumping mcdud. Im sure they want a high pick, maybe a second. It would be an interesting idea. For example...not saying this is good enough value wise. just spit balling...

flyers trade mcdud and 2nd rounder to Arizona for a low tier prospect and or late pick.
flyers trade Robert haag and a system rated high forward prospect to tampa in exchange for drioun and filpula.

Now I don't want filpula but it might help bring down the cost of getting drioun and helps tampas cap situation for the future. We have the cap space to take on that contract for another year.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 27 @ 8:47 AM ET
I've definitely had my fill of the current goalies, but I don't think free agency is the only way to go. I would see what it would cost to acquire Mike Smith from Arizona. They are going nowhere next season, and he may be available in the right deal.
- BiggE


I think Smith doesn't get enough credit for dealing with being the Coyotes goalie, and he is better than say his win% says he is, but I also think he benefits from the amount of shots they give up and has a bit of street to his game that makes him look better than he really is. I think both of the Flyers goalies are better and will be cheaper
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 27 @ 8:50 AM ET
I think Smith doesn't get enough credit for dealing with being the Coyotes goalie, and he is better than say his win% says he is, but I also think he benefits from the amount of shots they give up and has a bit of street to his game that makes him look better than he really is. I think both of the Flyers goalies are better and will be cheaper
- YuenglingJagr


You may be right. My #1 choice would be to go after Miller in free agency. As an American player, he may want to play in the States and he may be looking to come back to the Eastern conference as most older player don't enjoy the travel that comes with playing in the West.
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 27 @ 8:56 AM ET
I think Smith doesn't get enough credit for dealing with being the Coyotes goalie, and he is better than say his win% says he is, but I also think he benefits from the amount of shots they give up and has a bit of street to his game that makes him look better than he really is. I think both of the Flyers goalies are better and will be cheaper
- YuenglingJagr


2nd response.

I'm just tired of the 2 current goalies. Mase played well for a while, but except for 2 months late last season, he's not played particularly well the last 2 seasons. He gives up too many softies and I don't think he has the mental toughness to ever be a top flight NHL starter. Neuvirth has never been able to hold down the starters job anywhere for any length of time and there is a reason for that. He's just not good enough. He has the tools to be the guy, but he's way too inconsistent and injury prone to be trusted with the top spot.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 27 @ 8:56 AM ET
You may be right. My #1 choice would be to go after Miller in free agency. As an American player, he may want to play in the States and he may be looking to come back to the Eastern conference as most older player don't enjoy the travel that comes with playing in the West.
- BiggE

I am not a fan of Miller, but his stats have remained very consistent for the most part. I think he is overrated and won't be worth the price.

For free agents I like Ben Bishop to a degree, we will see how he finishes off the year, but I think he's better than his stat line indicated this year.

On the cheaper side I like Scott Darling.

edit: I have always like Anders Nilsson too

For a trade I like Halak. Especially if we could take his contract off their hands. I am not sure if his deal is actually perceived as a negative around the league, but it certainly seems like the Islanders would want to get rid of him.
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Feb 27 @ 8:57 AM ET
You may be right. My #1 choice would be to go after Miller in free agency. As an American player, he may want to play in the States and he may be looking to come back to the Eastern conference as most older player don't enjoy the travel that comes with playing in the West.
- BiggE



Smith would intriguing and I never thought of him. I like Halak and not sure it would cost much since the Islanders have him buried and probably want to move that cap hit out.

YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 27 @ 9:01 AM ET
2nd response.

I'm just tired of the 2 current goalies. Mase played well for a while, but except for 2 months late last season, he's not played particularly well the last 2 seasons. He gives up too many softies and I don't think he has the mental toughness to ever be a top flight NHL starter. Neuvirth has never been able to hold down the starters job anywhere for any length of time and there is a reason for that. He's just not good enough. He has the tools to be the guy, but he's way too inconsistent and injury prone to be trusted with the top spot.

- BiggE


I think the mental toughness part with Mason is bogus, but if at all true, has something to do with the coach. I do think the coach does not prefer him, and although as a pro that isn't supposed to wear on you, I don't see how it wouldn't. When actually relied on and given the full #1 job, he has performed at a high level for quite some time.

If I were him, I would be more interested than the Flyers in moving on. I think it is a mistake, but if they arent going to use him as a true #1 then it doesn't matter anyway
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 27 @ 9:01 AM ET
I am not a fan of Miller, but his stats have remained very consistent for the most part. I think he is overrated and won't be worth the price.

For free agents I like Ben Bishop to a degree, we will see how he finishes off the year, but I think he's better than his stat line indicated this year.

On the cheaper side I like Scott Darling.

For a trade I like Halak. Especially if we could take his contract off their hands. I am not sure if his deal is actually perceived as a negative around the league, but it certainly seems like the Islanders would want to get rid of him.

- YuenglingJagr


Halak scares me a bit, but it would cost next to nothing to get him and the Flyers won't be contending next year so it would be a low risk, possibly high reward move, so sure, why not?
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Feb 27 @ 9:02 AM ET
I am not a fan of Miller, but his stats have remained very consistent for the most part. I think he is overrated and won't be worth the price.

For free agents I like Ben Bishop to a degree, we will see how he finishes off the year, but I think he's better than his stat line indicated this year.

On the cheaper side I like Scott Darling.

For a trade I like Halak. Especially if we could take his contract off their hands. I am not sure if his deal is actually perceived as a negative around the league, but it certainly seems like the Islanders would want to get rid of him.

- YuenglingJagr



Played well last night.

BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 27 @ 9:03 AM ET
I think the mental toughness part with Mason is bogus, but if at all true, has something to do with the coach. I do think the coach does not prefer him, and although as a pro that isn't supposed to wear on you, I don't see how it wouldn't. When actually relied on and given the full #1 job, he has performed at a high level for quite some time.

If I were him, I would be more interested than the Flyers in moving on. I think it is a mistake, but if they arent going to use him as a true #1 then it doesn't matter anyway

- YuenglingJagr


Mason puts up good numbers, but he's not consistent. He'll play poorly for a month or 2, then he'll play like the best goalie in the league for a month or 2. I want someone more consistent to be our starter. Either way, I don't think it matters. Reading between the lines, it really seems that both Hakstol and Hextall don't have much confidence in him so I doubt he'll be back.
Streit2ThePoint
Seattle Kraken
Location: it's disgusting how good you are at hockeybuzz.
Joined: 09.20.2013

Feb 27 @ 9:03 AM ET
I am not a fan of Miller, but his stats have remained very consistent for the most part. I think he is overrated and won't be worth the price.

For free agents I like Ben Bishop to a degree, we will see how he finishes off the year, but I think he's better than his stat line indicated this year.

On the cheaper side I like Scott Darling.

For a trade I like Halak. Especially if we could take his contract off their hands. I am not sure if his deal is actually perceived as a negative around the league, but it certainly seems like the Islanders would want to get rid of him.

- YuenglingJagr


I'd like Bishop for a few years until Stolarz is ready to man the net. But I think he'll sign somewhere more long term (5 years).

ravishingone
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: United States, PA
Joined: 06.30.2007

Feb 27 @ 9:03 AM ET
Teams in the Stanley Cup finals rankings in GAA during regular season:

-Last year - Pens (6th) - Sharks (10th)
-'15 -Hawks (2nd) - Bolts (12th)
-'14 - Kings (1st) - Rangers (4th)
-'13 -Hawks (1st) - Bruins (3rd)
-'12- Kings (2nd) - Devils (10th)
-'11 - Bruins (2nd) - Canucks (1st)

Is there a trend here? For the love of God Hexy and Hakstol fix the team defense first.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Feb 27 @ 9:04 AM ET
I've definitely had my fill of the current goalies, but I don't think free agency is the only way to go. I would see what it would cost to acquire Mike Smith from Arizona. They are going nowhere next season, and he may be available in the right deal. With 2 years left on his deal, he'd be the perfect veteran bridge to the young prospects. Another guy to look at is Mark Andre Fleury. Perhaps a deal can be worked out with Vegas to take him in the expansion draft and then trade him to us. Yeah, he can be up and down, but when he is on, he's a damn good goalie. Plus, he also only has 2 years left on his deal so he wouldn't be blocking any of the kids and, if he plays really well, it would have the added bonus of driving Pens fans nuts!

In free agency, there are 2 guys I like depending on term and cost. The first is Bishop. If they can work out a deal for no more than 4 years, and front load it as much as allowed, I'd be very happy. If needed, they could move him after the 3rd season, as I doubt any of their 2 best prospects, Sandstrom & Hart, are ready to be NHL starters much before 20-21, and both should be on ELC's until then as well.

The other guy I'd look at is Ryan Miller. He is playing very well behind a pretty bad Vancouver team. He'll be 37 in July, so I doubt anyone is going to offer him a long term deal. But, if they could get him for one year (even if they have to overpay) or even 2, I'd be cool with that.

- BiggE


Read & neuvirth for miller at the deadline
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 27 @ 9:05 AM ET
I'd like Bishop for a few years until Stolarz is ready to man the net. But I think he'll sign somewhere more long term (5 years).
- Streit2ThePoint

I think giving a 5 year contract to any goalie that isn't headed into their prime is stupid, but this is the NHL and GMs we are talking about. You're probably right (since you are plugged into LV) and someone will do it
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Feb 27 @ 9:06 AM ET
Read & neuvirth for miller at the deadline
- Just5

BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 27 @ 9:07 AM ET
Read & neuvirth for miller at the deadline
- Just5


I'd do that in a heartbeat, not sure why Vancouver would though.
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Feb 27 @ 9:07 AM ET
Teams in the Stanley Cup finals rankings in GAA during regular season:

-Last year - Pens (6th) - Sharks (10th)
-'15 -Hawks (2nd) - Bolts (12th)
-'14 - Kings (1st) - Rangers (4th)
-'13 -Hawks (1st) - Bruins (3rd)
-'12- Kings (2nd) - Devils (10th)
-'11 - Bruins (2nd) - Canucks (1st)

Is there a trend here? For the love of God Hexy and Hakstol fix the team defense first.

- ravishingone



You realize they are. Look at all the recent drafts. Lot of big forwards who play a 200ft game and defenseman.

It's not an overnight fix.
arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Feb 27 @ 9:07 AM ET
He may...they must do something for cap relief but if they are moving drioun, or thinking about it, it wont happen till the offseason where more teams can get involved. Playoff teams are looking to add to the roster not remove a player for another. Kind of interesting though, because Arizona has lots of cap space to dump a contract, however, your going to pay for it. Like dumping mcdud. Im sure they want a high pick, maybe a second. It would be an interesting idea. For example...not saying this is good enough value wise. just spit balling...

flyers trade mcdud and 2nd rounder to Arizona for a low tier prospect and or late pick.
flyers trade Robert haag and a system rated high forward prospect to tampa in exchange for drioun and filpula.

Now I don't want filpula but it might help bring down the cost of getting drioun and helps tampas cap situation for the future. We have the cap space to take on that contract for another year.

- jmdodgeser4


Yeah one of Palat, Johnson, or Drouin will not be with Tampa come next season imo. And honestly I like all 3 players. I like the creativity with your approach to bring down the cost. Conveniently Filipula is a center too which could be a nice temporary add. What also could work with Filipula is we could trade him at the trade deadline next season with some salary retained to a contender with his expiring contract.
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