A 2nd can also be a player that never plays an NHL game.
- Feds91Stammer

Any pick can be that. But odds are better for a 2nd to turn out well than a late pick. Conmon sense.

A wings fan should understand this. You've not needed to rebuild for decades cuz of proper drafting. Part of that is keeping early picks.



Why are you here anyways? All you do is pick stupid fights and use strawman arguments. Nothing better to do?
- Zac_O

Detroit is not good and hasn't been since like 2009.

A wings fan should understand this. You've not needed to rebuild for decades cuz of proper drafting. Part of that is keeping early picks.



Why are you here anyways? All you do is pick stupid fights and use strawman arguments. Nothing better to do?
- Zac_O

They have needed a rebuild for 5+ years now because in the cap era your best bet to get elite talent is in a top 10 pick.

I wouldn't have to argue if there weren't so many poop opinions. My arguments are never straw man you jabroni.

Detroit is not good and hasn't been since like 2009.
- j.boyd919

Again you are correct in your analysis.

Daley was 2nd in ATOI. That is an important role to fill. Schultz is 5th and Maatta is 6th.
- Feds91Stammer

I know, but the last couple of weeks, Schultz and Cole were the far more reliable pairing. Maatta and Daley have been a dumpster fire for large parts of the season.

Beyond that, Schultz has been terrific. Probably our best defensman all year. People will cringe, but he's better than Letang on the PP.

So you would want to go down the path of mediocrity like DET?
- Feds91Stammer

You want to be the oilers or leafs instead? You're not the typical wings fan.

Any pick can be that. But odds are better for a 2nd to turn out well than a late pick. Conmon sense.
- Zac_O

Better odds by how much though?

That's the problem with guys like Karlsson, Letang, Hedman, etc. They skew people's perception of what no. 1 D is. Everyone thinks no. 1 means elite numbers, Norris candidate, etc. And if they aren't that then they aren't top pairing D. Or become labeled a PP specialist (even though 7 of his 26 points are on the PP.. you would think as a PP specialist, a majority of his points would be on the PP...) same poop happens with forwards though too. People grossly miscalculate 1st line or 2nd line scoring rates because of top tier players.
- j.boyd919

When people refer to a 1D they don't mean a fringe 1D they mean a guy you can win a cup with franchise 1D. Almost every cup winner has a letang. Some have 2 or 3 of them.

You want to be the oilers or leafs instead? You're not the typical wings fan.
- Zac_O

Yeah because I'm not a little caesars guzzling sheep. Using incompetent rebuilding models is not a good reference point either. You can do a successful rebuild in 3-5 years with good cap and asset management.

When people refer to a 1D they don't mean a fringe 1D they mean a guy you can win a cup with franchise 1D. Almost every cup winner has a letang. Some have 2 or 3 of them.
- sditulli

Name one team that has 2 "letangs"

I know, but the last couple of weeks, Schultz and Cole were the far more reliable pairing. Maatta and Daley have been a dumpster fire for large parts of the season.

Beyond that, Schultz has been terrific. Probably our best defensman all year. People will cringe, but he's better than Letang on the PP.
- madmike71

Not arguing with you just pointing out the facts...

They have needed a rebuild for 5+ years now because in the cap era your best bet to get elite talent is in a top 10 pick.

I wouldn't have to argue if there weren't so many poop opinions. My arguments are never straw man you jabroni.
- Feds91Stammer

I'll believe they need to rebuild once they finally miss the playoffs.

I'd pat you on the back buy your hand is in the way. Be a little more full of yourself will you?

I'll believe they need to rebuild once they finally miss the playoffs.

I'd pat you on the back buy your hand is in the way. Be a little more full of yourself will you?
- Zac_O

Currently they only have one more ROW that COL and AZ. They are bad. They have won 1 playoff round in the last 5 years.

When people refer to a 1D they don't mean a fringe 1D they mean a guy you can win a cup with franchise 1D. Almost every cup winner has a letang. Some have 2 or 3 of them.
- sditulli

Penguins 2nd round picks since 2004:

Johannes Salmonsson
Alex Goligoski
Michael Gergen
Carl Sneep
Keven Veilleux
Philip Samuelsson
Scott Harrington
Teddy Blueger
Tristan Jarry
Daniel Sprong
Filip Gustavsson
Kasper Bjorkqvist

With the exception of Goligoski and the recent guys who haven't had a chance to show their worth, the Pens have mostly missed in the 2nd round.
- cap1681

Oh, Since 2004?

Justin Peters
Nate Hagemo
Jamie McBain
Zac Dalpe
Brian Dumoulin
Justin Faulk
Mark Alt
Victor Rask
Phil Di Giuseppe
Brock McGinn
Alex Nedeljkovic
Sebastian Aho
Janne Kuokkanen

Honestly I would love to hear this argument.
- Feds91Stammer

No problem. We've been good in the top 3 rounds lately. 2012-2015

2012
8th pick - Pouliot
22nd pick - maatta
2nd round - teddy blueger
3rd round - sundqvist
3rd round - matt murray

2013
44th pick - tristan jarry
77th pick - jake guentzel

2014
22nd pick - kapanen

2015
46th pick - daniel sprong

Thats every top 3 round pick we've had since 2012. Every single one of those guys will play in the NHL. Find another team that can say that. Blueger is only one who looks questionable, but he's likely to get a cup of coffee at a minimum. Basically zero misses (Exception of pouliot who we drafted way too high; I'd call him the only true miss).

- j.boyd919

Your fighting over semantics and its really lame.

No problem. We've been good in the top 3 rounds lately. 2012-2015

2012
8th pick - Pouliot
22nd pick - maatta
2nd round - teddy blueger
3rd round - sundqvist
3rd round - matt murray

2013
44th pick - tristan jarry
77th pick - jake guentzel

2014
22nd pick - kapanen

2015
46th pick - daniel sprong

Thats every top 3 round pick we've had since 2012. Every single one of those guys will play in the NHL. Find another team that can say that. Blueger is only one who looks questionable, but he's likely to get a cup of coffee at a minimum. Basically zero misses (Exception of pouliot who we drafted way too high; I'd call him the only true miss).
- sditulli

Tampa Bay

2011
Namestnikov - 27th
Kucherov - 58th
Nesterov - 148th
Wilcox - 178th
Peca - 201
Palat - 208

2012
Koekkoek - 10th
Vasilevskiy - 19th
Richard - 71st
Paquette - 101st
Dotchin - 161st

2013
Erne - 33rd
Gudlevskis - 124th
Vermin - 186th

2014
Deangelo - 19th
Masin - 35th
Point - 79th

2015
Stephens at 33rd, kid is supposed to be good.

Keepin going back, you've got Connolly, Gudas, Panik, Barberio, Killorn all coming from the draft...

Your fighting over semantics and its really lame.
- sditulli

Actually, I'm not fighting, that's why I said we were done. I was discussing with Feds.

Name one team that has 2 "letangs"
- Feds91Stammer

Predators when they had weber and suter. Some people argue Josi is at that level. So Josi and Subban now (I think josi is a half step below). Seth Jones and Werenski are getting to that level. Burns and Vlasic are close. Its rare but does happen.

No problem. We've been good in the top 3 rounds lately. 2012-2015

2012
8th pick - Pouliot
22nd pick - maatta
2nd round - teddy blueger
3rd round - sundqvist
3rd round - matt murray

2013
44th pick - tristan jarry
77th pick - jake guentzel

2014
22nd pick - kapanen

2015
46th pick - daniel sprong

Thats every top 3 round pick we've had since 2012. Every single one of those guys will play in the NHL. Find another team that can say that. Blueger is only one who looks questionable, but he's likely to get a cup of coffee at a minimum. Basically zero misses (Exception of pouliot who we drafted way too high; I'd call him the only true miss).
- sditulli

4 years is a small sample size and there is definitely question as to whether these guys all play 100+ games in the NHL.

Predators when they had weber and suter. Some people argue Josi is at that level. So Josi and Subban now (I think josi is a half step below). Seth Jones and Werenski are getting to that level. Burns and Vlasic are close. Its rare but does happen.
- sditulli

lol Mike Green is and always has been better than Josi.

Your fighting over semantics and its really lame.
- sditulli

*you're

Predators when they had weber and suter. Some people argue Josi is at that level. So Josi and Subban now (I think josi is a half step below). Seth Jones and Werenski are getting to that level. Burns and Vlasic are close. Its rare but does happen.
- sditulli

So these guys are now all on Letang level???