Thy GIF is hilarious... And yes Holmgren was awful.
- redcoat75

as bad as Holmgren was as GM, Clarke was worse!

Wiese from a routine healthy scratch, to playing on the second line.
2 goals in 47 games. Is this franchise serious with this personnel?
- PLindbergh31

Yeah that 2nd line sure was a disaster last game....IS THIS FRANCHISE SERIOUS?!

If G is in the decline and Duschene is 2-3 years younger does a deal here not make sense. Sure the Avs may not be interested, but can't you sweeten the deal with picks and/or a prospect or two?
I really like Duschene, Landeskog AND Tyson Barrie....Heck the Avs even have a little log-jam in net. (Varly??)
Can anyone foresee a shocking blockbuster G,Schenn + for duschene and Landeskog?
Would anyone pull the trigger on that deal?
- dmorin

They wouldn't want Giroux. If they are moving Duchene and Landeskog they are going full rebuild. They already have MacKinnon. They would want cap flexibility and younger players.

If your trading Giroux you not likely to get a top prospect back. You'll probably get some depth pieces and maybe some picks.

The one player on this roster who could bring back the best value and a possible top line player would be Simmonds.

He has so little to work with, I almost feel bad for Hak

Looking objectively:
Vandevelde is a borderline 4th liner
PEB, Lyubimov are average 4th line players.
Raffl and Weise might be signed to 3rd line contracts, but they are playing like 4th liners.
Cousins hustles and draws penalties, but he is a 3rd line player at best.
Read is barely a 3rd liner at this point.

That leaves all of 5 forwards
Simmonds is great on the pp and brings toughness which this team sorely lacks, but at ES, he is a 2nd line guy at best
Schenn is great on the pp, but just flat out bad at ES, he really should be on the 3rd line.
Couturier is an ok 2nd line center who is never going to be a big scorer

and now we are down to 2:
Giroux is a mess right now, hell he's even somewhat struggling on the pp. The way he is playing right now, he has no business playing in the top 6 at ES

Jake is pretty much it for a legit threat at ES, if you shut him down, they aren't going score except on the pp.

Now add that to a D where your top guy just turned 20 and goalies who have been woefully inconsistent and I'm not sure what Hak can really do.

I don't like some of Hak's line combos and certainly often disagree with his lineups, but at the end of the day, I really can't judge him as a head coach. He just doesn't have enough talent to work with.
- BiggE

Some good points. I just don't buy that the whole team is slumping at once at 5v5. There's a lot more talent on this roster than some believe.

The Flyers expected fenwick shooting percentage is 3rd from last in the NHL, so is it really that surprising when their actual shooting percentage is also 3rd from last?

The Flyers also have the farthest average shot distance in the entire NHL.

Combine this with their shot chart:



Just screams systems issue to me.

With all the injuries that just hit Ottawa in their top 6 I wonder if you could move Giroux. Maybe do something like Toronto did with kessel. Keep some money retained. Maybe you can get back Logan Brown. Would you take on the Clarke MacArthur deal, which might just sit on LTIR or maybe he retires because of the concussions.

Some good points. I just don't buy that the whole team is slumping at once at 5v5. There's a lot more talent on this roster than some believe.

The Flyers expected fenwick shooting percentage is 3rd from last in the NHL, so is it really that surprising when their actual shooting percentage is also 3rd from last?

The Flyers also have the farthest average shot distance in the entire NHL.

Combine this with their shot chart:



Just screams systems issue to me.
- JFlyers00

This is like the chicken and the egg.

Is it system issues? Or is it lack of talent? Does more talent make the system work better? Would a different system help a less talented team?

With all the injuries that just hit Ottawa in their top 6 I wonder if you could move Giroux. Maybe do something like Toronto did with kessel. Keep some money retained. Maybe you can get back Logan Brown. Would you take on the Clarke MacArthur deal, which might just sit on LTIR or maybe he retires because of the concussions.
- J35Bacher

Jesus. Let it go. Giroux isn't getting moved, especially mid-season.

The Flyers will never be able to get fair value for Giroux in a trade. The time to move him has passed. He has more value on the team than he would from the assets he would fetch from a trade.

- JFlyers00

I bet Gudas is responsible for nearly all of the shots from the neutral zone

Yup, only look at the bad, makes perfect sense.

He unloaded Rinaldo for a 3rd, that's a (frank)ing steal.
He got rid of Vinny and Pronger's contract
He had the nads to bury AMac in the minors when he needed to do so
He's drafted some fantastic prospects
He got MDZ for cheap when they badly needed a Dman and was able to re-sign him to a reasonable extension.
He re-signed Couturier to a reasonable extension

It's hard to make good deals when you aren't dealing from strength. Could he move G? Sure, but this probably wouldn't be the optimal time to do so. Simmonds could be moved at a certain point in time, but I don't think now is the time. To go all out and tank for a chance to get a shot at 2 prospects, who while both are very good, neither is a McDavid or Matthews would not be wise. He'll likely move some expiring deals at the deadline like he did with Timonen and Coburn and that's fine with me.

Building patiently from within is not a linear process, there will be ups and downs. I'm willing to wait.
- BiggE

Vinny got rid of Vinny. If he didnt want to move not a thing hextal could have done. Vinny made that trade happen more so than hextal

Got MDZ for cheap because he was pretty much the only guy out there left. Not like this was some great strategic move.

Don't think the #14 contract is that great. its ok at best.

rinaldo deal was a fleecing.

as bad as Holmgren was as GM, Clarke was worse!
- kammy

Yes and no. He had a great run in the beginning. From 84-89 he had a very young team in the final 4 three times and the finals twice. It was just our luck that both trips to the finals pitted us against one of the greatest teams of all time and we were also hit hard with injuries both times. He also took a chance and hit a homerun hiring Mike Keenan in 1984.

He had a tendency to hold on to guys for too long and also hold grudges (McCrimmon) and that often came back to bite him.

In his second run, he made the Recchi for Leclair and Desjardins deal, turned a bitter Gary Galley into Petr Svoboda, got Dykhuis for a song and made the team a contender almost overnight. Yes, he did not handle the Lindros drama well, but, in his defense, I think any GM would have struggled with that situation. At the end of the day, he was able to keep the team pretty damn competitive from 1994 to 2004.

On the negative side, he had a tendency to quickly burn through coaches, especially between Murray and Hitch and he was completely unprepared for the cap era and rule changes that followed the lockout. He'll be the first to admit that he was burned out by then and that his heart wasn't in it, and I think he probably regrets not stepping down during the lockout season.

Overall though, in 17 full seasons as GM, his teams only missed the playoffs once, went to the final four 7 times and made 3 trips to the finals. That is hardly Mike Milbury territory.

zz

I bet Gudas is responsible for nearly all of the shots from the neutral zone
- YuenglingJagr

Probably

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere recently that the Flyers only have 1 goal scored from a shot from the point. I think Corey Sznajder tweeted it. Seems absolutely crazy. I'll see if I can find it.

Jesus. Let it go. Giroux isn't getting moved, especially mid-season.

The Flyers will never be able to get fair value for Giroux in a trade. The time to move him has passed. He has more value on the team than he would from the assets he would fetch from a trade.
- JFlyers00

What's that value right now?

Giroux is basically Vinny and if he wasn't the captain would probably have been scratched some games by now.

Some good points. I just don't buy that the whole team is slumping at once at 5v5. There's a lot more talent on this roster than some believe.

The Flyers expected fenwick shooting percentage is 3rd from last in the NHL, so is it really that surprising when their actual shooting percentage is also 3rd from last?

The Flyers also have the farthest average shot distance in the entire NHL.

Combine this with their shot chart:



Just screams systems issue to me.
- JFlyers00

Actually having the farthest average shot distance tells me that they are too small and too slow to generate enough non pp good chances. I think the issue is mainly talent.

I have a bad feeling that Hextall's process will be much longer than anyone thinks. It is great for Ron Hextall ensuring he has a job for years to come but bad for Flyers fans. I think I could tell everyone to be patient, do NOTHING, and collect a massive salary too.
- redcoat75

cool lets trade all the young kids coming along, trade away all the first and second round picks like in the past and sign all the name UFAs cause it has worked so well for them in the past. can't wait

I bet Gudas is responsible for nearly all of the shots from the neutral zone
- YuenglingJagr

Actually having the farthest average shot distance tells me that they are too small and too slow to generate enough non pp good chances. I think the issue is mainly talent.
- BiggE

I think it is part of their system...but there is certainly a deficiency in the talent department

Yeah that 2nd line sure was a disaster last game....IS THIS FRANCHISE SERIOUS?!
- Baxter27

Yes, Wiese on the second line is ideal! What was I thinking.

Yup, only look at the bad, makes perfect sense.

He unloaded Rinaldo for a 3rd, that's a (frank)ing steal.
He got rid of Vinny and Pronger's contract
He had the nads to bury AMac in the minors when he needed to do so
He's drafted some fantastic prospects
He got MDZ for cheap when they badly needed a Dman and was able to re-sign him to a reasonable extension.
He re-signed Couturier to a reasonable extension

It's hard to make good deals when you aren't dealing from strength. Could he move G? Sure, but this probably wouldn't be the optimal time to do so. Simmonds could be moved at a certain point in time, but I don't think now is the time. To go all out and tank for a chance to get a shot at 2 prospects, who while both are very good, neither is a McDavid or Matthews would not be wise. He'll likely move some expiring deals at the deadline like he did with Timonen and Coburn and that's fine with me.

Building patiently from within is not a linear process, there will be ups and downs. I'm willing to wait.
- BiggE

as bad as Holmgren was as GM, Clarke was worse!
- kammy

Odd how the Flyers managed to make the playoffs so often with back to back bad GMs.

Giroux is basically Vinny
- J35Bacher

Actually having the farthest average shot distance tells me that they are too small and too slow to generate enough non pp good chances. I think the issue is mainly talent.
- BiggE

Watching the games, it seems as though the forwards option #1 is to get the puck to the point most of the time.

It would be like running a pass play in the NFL, and having the check-down be the primary option.

Yes, Wiese on the second line is ideal! What was I thinking.
- PLindbergh31

Who said it was ideal? He is the 2nd injury replacement for Konecny in that spot. I don't even think you know what you're complaining about half the time. It was by far the most effective line on Saturday. But you can't get your negative mind past Weise's 2 goals.

Understood. But you can't roll out the same core every year and expect different results. There is a balance to changing a squad. Holmgren was too much for constant change; Which is bad. Hextall is all about changing nothing and waiting for the excruciating glacial paced rebuild through the draft. Well it's even slower when you are constantly drafting in the teens to twenties. We got Provy when we were really bad. And won't get Another like him until we get really bad again.
- redcoat75

Ghost was a third rounder. Sanheim was drafted mid first round. I'm tired of the old process. how many cups did that get? building through the draft may be a painfully slow process considering Flyers fans are used to instant gratification but I am willing to be patient cause the old way hasn't gotten them any closer to a cup and has actually gotten them in this mess that Hextall has been trying to climb out of

I think it is part of their system...but there is certainly a deficiency in the talent department
- YuenglingJagr

Yeah, I'm not saying they have plentiful talent, just more than some believe. They need more to be a contender, or go on deep run. But they certainly have enough talent to make the playoffs, and missing is inexcusable.