That will probably get you extra "Tatar" sauce for your filet o fish. Not Tomas Tatar.
(sorry, couldn't help myself).

They can't give McNeill away at this point. That deal is basically Forsling, a somewhat unproven defense prospect who can definitely shoot and pass the puck, for a proven, solid, 2nd line, two-way winger. Unless Holland loved Forsling (BIGLY), I think that's a stretch to get that done.

Forsling, TVR, pick, something like that.
- John Jaeckel

what about forsling, pokka, and a pick?

For sake of argument, let's say that happens.

With TVR AND Forsling gone, who steps up to take that blueline spot? Or, does Stan make another deal for a #6 dman?
- tompo1015

He's alleged to be looking at depth d-men, like Luke Schenn, FWIW. Good question, though.

what about forsling, pokka, and a pick?
- ToewsdNKanefusd

I don't think Pokka has much trade value honestly. Maybe I'm wrong.

That might be true but you never know. Just like ten years ago one could make that same argument with Keith, Seabrook, Sharp, Kane etc..
- MjulQvist

Uhhhh . . .

Kane, Seabrook, Sharp, Keith, etc>>>>>>>>>>>>>Motte, Schmaltz, Hartman, Forsling, Hinostroza.

Or am I missing your point?

Those guys - Kane, Toews, Keith and Seabrook are generational type players. None of the Hawks youths on the roster are those types
- PatShart

Correct.

Keith was a second round pick, 54th overall. He was hardly considered generational at the time. The others were know commodities though.
- JRoenick97

Keith had established himself as a "high ceiling player" by his second year in Norfolk (AHL) though.

And the comparison is against guys who are all either in the AHL or NHL at this point.

He's alleged to be looking at depth d-men, like Luke Schenn, FWIW. Good question, though.
- John Jaeckel

I suppose TVR is expendable to get you a forward, but I really like the way his game is progressing (in my far from hockey expert opinion). It really is a toss up for me on trading him. Not sure there is a steady "replacement" for him right now that Q feels comfortable with.

I thought "generational" was reserved for describing the likes of McDavid or Crosby types.
- BlazinMike

Ehhh, fair point.

But I think an argument can be made that Keith, Toews and Kane are "near" generational players. Dunno . . . all those MVP trophies, gold medlas, Conn Smythes and Stanley Cups.

Then the fact that anyone with functioning cerebral cortex knows that Hinostroza, Motte, Schmaltz, Forsling and Hartman may end up being OK to pretty good NHLplayers, but not . . . that good.

How do you know deBrincat is good?

Same reason Kyle Beach was gonna be good?

Just saying.
- John Jaeckel

I guess for me and my previous statement, its more that I don't think its worth it at all to trade for Hanzal, he's not good.

Debrincat at least has a chance to be good, whether he's big or not. Hanzal has been around awhile and has proven to be unreliable health-wise (even though he's big) and not very good for the money he's making and will be making in the coming seasons.

2nd player in the entire History of the OHL to score 50+ goals in 3 different seasons. Again, doesn't mean he is a can't-miss NHL player like McDavid, Matthews, Laine or Eichel....BUT, its not something that "many guys" have done. Actually, nobody has done it in over 40 years and just the 2nd all-time to do so. I think that says a lot about his NHL potential.
- EnzoD

When he was at home the kid slept on Detroit Red Wing logo sheets. Right after the Hawks drafted him, McD and his mother went out shopping and bought him all new Blackhawks fitted sheets and pillow cases - and now people want to trade him? What a waste.

I suppose TVR is expendable to get you a forward, but I really like the way his game is progressing (in my far from hockey expert opinion). It really is a toss up for me on trading him. Not sure there is a steady "replacement" for him right now that Q feels comfortable with.
- hpk90

Dunno, and he is not the only asset they could move either.

When he was at home the kid slept on Detroit Red Wing logo sheets. Right after the Hawks drafted him, McD and his mother went out shopping and bought him all new Blackhawks fitted sheets and pillow cases - and now people want to trade him? What a waste.
- RickJ

Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that. Rick, you are a beauty, man.

Uhhhh . . .

Kane, Seabrook, Sharp, Keith, etc>>>>>>>>>>>>>Motte, Schmaltz, Hartman, Forsling, Hinostroza.

Or am I missing your point?
- John Jaeckel

10 years ago all of them were just as unproven and uncertain to win anything in NHL. That´s all.

I guess for me and my previous statement, its more that I don't think its worth it at all to trade for Hanzal, he's not good.

Debrincat at least has a chance to be good, whether he's big or not. Hanzal has been around awhile and has proven to be unreliable health-wise (even though he's big) and not very good for the money he's making and will be making in the coming seasons.
- BlazinMike

I hear ya on the health.

I think he's a better hockey player when healthy than you give him credit for. More importantly, if the Hawks acquire him, it'll be because they do. They are interested in him and they have been in the past.

I remember (both times actually) the Hawks acquired Handzus, people said the same. Truth is, although Hanzal is a much better skater), Handzus was a pretty good hockey player in a lot of ways.

Sam Gagner, Rob Schremp, and many more legends of the OHL never amounted to much in the NHL. All the guys you compare him to have one thing he doesn't and that's NHL size.

As I've said all along on deBrincat, if he really has a lot of heart he could potentially be a great NHL player. It's hard to measure at his current level of competition. It's just not like the NHL where all the guys are good and most of them are big.
- John Jaeckel

For sure JJ NOTHING is guaranteed, even for a bigger guy drafted early in Round 1. However, to be fair to Debrincat AND Shremp, Rob Schremp had 1 season over 100 points in the OHL. His first 2 years in the OHL paled in comparison to the Numbers that Debrincat has put up. Sam Gagner also had only 1 year of 100+ points in the OHL. I only brought up the most recent Top Draft picks bc those guys were considered "can't miss" and that rarely happens. Just look at Hanafin who has skill and size but hasn't really translated to NHL success yet. Nothing is for sure in this life, or in NHL draft picks/prospects. I just think it'd make more sense to trade Debrincat+ for Duchene as Hartman has proven he can be a very effective NHLer (as has Duchene). Also, both Duchene/Debrincat are skill players while Hartman is an in your face, physical, grinder with some skill.

Ehhh, fair point.

But I think an argument can be made that Keith, Toews and Kane are "near" generational players. Dunno . . . all those MVP trophies, gold medlas, Conn Smythes and Stanley Cups.

Then the fact that anyone with functioning cerebral cortex knows that Hinostroza, Motte, Schmaltz, Forsling and Hartman may end up being OK to pretty good NHLplayers, but not . . . that good.
- John Jaeckel

I agree on the latter part stated. The Hawks core I think can and should be considered a generational core. But the individual players by themselves, not so much. I think I would say Keith is the closest to generational but he's not really there. But all of them put together is something extremely special that probably wont be replicated for a long time.

10 years ago all of them were just as unproven and uncertain to win anything in NHL. That´s all.
- MjulQvist

Not to be a Richard, but no they weren't.

I agree on the latter part stated. The Hawks core I think can and should be considered a generational core. But the individual players by themselves, not so much. I think I would say Keith is the closest to generational but he's not really there. But all of them put together is something extremely special that probably wont be replicated for a long time.
- BlazinMike

We're splitting hairs at this point, and no argument. Keith and Kane for me get closest.

Uhhhh . . .

Kane, Seabrook, Sharp, Keith, etc>>>>>>>>>>>>>Motte, Schmaltz, Hartman, Forsling, Hinostroza.

Or am I missing your point?
- John Jaeckel

You are right. There is no "generational" talent amongst Motte, Schmaltz, Hartman, Forsling, Hinostroza, etc.). However, there may be (in a few years time) a really good (hopefully exceptional) core of a team here. However, that is pure speculation.

We are lucky to have the core that we have no. Let's enjoy it. Let the kids learn to excel based on watching and playing with the core. I think we can see their growth already, and it is a lot of fun to watch (most of the time)!

I'd Gladly move D-Cat/McNeill/4th for Hanzel/Schenn/3rd, then then flip Pokka/Motte for Vanek.

Just spitballing off the ideas posted... Obviously Cap would need to be worked out for those deals and i dont have time to research it all...

Thoughts?

I wonder if Bowman will call his buddy Francis to see if the 'Canes are open for business. Maybe Hainsey? 'Canes have young D who are in need of play time. Trading Hainsey opens a spot, and gives them an asset for a player they may or may not resign anyway.

When he was at home the kid slept on Detroit Red Wing logo sheets. Right after the Hawks drafted him, McD and his mother went out shopping and bought him all new Blackhawks fitted sheets and pillow cases - and now people want to trade him? What a waste.
- RickJ

Maybe I should not invest in an Erie Otters' DeBrincat jersey then?

How do you know deBrincat is good?

Same reason Kyle Beach was gonna be good?

Just saying.
- John Jaeckel

Fair point JJ...

My take on DeBrincat is that he's shown enough to be given a very long look. His OHL production has been staggering and I think it would be a mistake to simply use him as a sweatener to acquire a rental at this point.

Young, cost controlled scoring talent is precious.

For sure JJ NOTHING is guaranteed, even for a bigger guy drafted early in Round 1. However, to be fair to Debrincat AND Shremp, Rob Schremp had 1 season over 100 points in the OHL. His first 2 years in the OHL paled in comparison to the Numbers that Debrincat has put up. Sam Gagner also had only 1 year of 100+ points in the OHL. I only brought up the most recent Top Draft picks bc those guys were considered "can't miss" and that rarely happens. Just look at Hanafin who has skill and size but hasn't really translated to NHL success yet. Nothing is for sure in this life, or in NHL draft picks/prospects. I just think it'd make more sense to trade Debrincat+ for Duchene as Hartman has proven he can be a very effective NHLer (as has Duchene). Also, both Duchene/Debrincat are skill players while Hartman is an in your face, physical, grinder with some skill.
- EnzoD

I will defer to those who follow OHL hockey moreso than I do, which isn't much. i have no idea what kind of team DB's been playing on beyond mcDavid being there last year.

I think his size is why he dropped in spite of the numbers, and I have heard there was a hockey reason (less thanelite speed?) he got left off the WJC team—although some said it was all politics. Dunno, they won, didn't they?

He could end up being heat. I will say when I saw him play it was like Fat Bastard looking at Mini-Me. He just looks really, really small. Not Theo Fleury or St, Louis small. But smaller. And I do lean to the theory that when skill is equal, greater size wins out.

All that said, he may end up being great. I honestly don't know. I just hesitate to anoint a guy unless he clearly has all the physical tools and character—like a McDavid or a Toews.

Not to be a Richard, but no they weren't.
- John Jaeckel

Well almost. Kane coming from OHL, Keith was clearly not sure thing and had his growing pains, Sharp had 35 points as season high and so on. Back then none of them was looked as a backbone of Cup winning team. Or least I can´t remember that being the case?