When you consider Cap hits though, how much better and also considering what else the Hawks would have to include?
- HawkintheD

That is one of the caveats. Another one is how long can you keep Duchene? A third is what happens to the bottom 6 this year for the playoffs? We saw in the past how critical it is to have a good bottom 6.

Again, just being fair here: Duchene has had a some pretty good #'s. Can easily put up 60 points, maybe more if he were in this Hawks top 6 through a full season of course. For the 8 playoff games he has been in he has 6 points. And just to acknowledge this, we don't know how he will perform in the playoffs because of limited observation.

If the FO's mindset is all in. Cup this year. Rebuild eventually, sacrifing prospects and young players does make sense since the core is still relatively young. My take is Palat is a better defensive player and has had more success in the playoffs (based on NHL stats). Keeping Hartman on board helps with secondary scoring from here on out... doesn't mean he will light it up in the playoffs, but as a third liner with some decent scoring ability, it will certainly help.

Better players win Stanley Cups. Cheaper players give you cap flexibility.

I get it, there's a trade off.

But 10 years from now when the Hawks are battling with Dallas for 11th in the conference, all the cap mopey you saved, possibly at the expense of a fourth Cup, won't matter.

Put another way, now is the time.

Because Hartman, Hinostroza, Mostte, Schmaltz , Forsling and even the Great Alex deBrincat are not going to be the core of a Stanley Cup team ten years from now. Anyone care to argue that? I'll take that bet.
- John Jaeckel

Absolutely but in order to have that mindset, ownership needs to buy in. VPs, GMs, and Presidents come and go but ownership typically doesn't.

When all is said and done in that 10 years, John McD and StanBo may have moved on but Rocky will still be there. Does he buy in to possibly leaving the team devoid of young talent (and in Hartmann's and Vinny's case, local young talent) in order to get a player that MAY fit in to a position of need? We all drooled at getting Ladd last year and it didn't work so well. That's the nature of the game.

The other question I would have is how does Q feel about getting a player who is a career -44. Guys that were traded for at last year's deadline weren't used because they got in the doghouse, which was a giant waste. Let's say Duchene ends up here and doesn't get back on a 3 on 2 that leads to a GWG. What's the reaction from Q? You aren't going to sit a $6,000,000 trade deadline deal, are you?

Hartman has 14 goals playing mostly 3rd line minutes as a Rookie. Meanwhile, $6million dollar man Duchene has 16 goals. Hartman plays physical, goes to the net, drops the gloves, is cost-controlled, and is a Chicago kid. Hartman going to Colorado for Duchene doesn't make much sense to me!!
- EnzoD

Forget the 16 goals and trading him for Hartman. On a stand alone basis Duchene is an excellent hockey player and he wouldn't have made Team Canada under Babcock twice if he wasn't. The kid can play and he has speed to burn.

But, I don't see it happening with the Hawks - Sakic is looking to hit a grand slam and his player's salary kills it unless of course a comparable contract comes off of Stan's books.

@RumorBreak
#BREAKING - Hearing the Flames are quietly shopping Sam Bennett. He is available.

Seems Colorado is becoming impossible to make a deal with.
Comes down to
Can Bowman include Hartman and afford Duchene next year?
If he can make that work I think the deal happens.
If next year isn't in the plan the trade is dead.

My guess is Hartman stays and FO moves onto Plan B.

Forget the 16 goals and trading him for Hartman. On a stand alone basis Duchene is an excellent hockey player and he wouldn't have made Team Canada under Babcock twice if he wasn't. The kid can play and he has speed to burn.

But, I don't see it happening with the Hawks - Sakic is looking to hit a grand slam and his player's salary kills it unless of course a comparable contract comes off of Stan's books.
- RickJ

I'd like to think Sakic is looking for a Shattenkirk/Trouba, another roster player,
A-level prospect, and high draft picks.

Absolutely but in order to have that mindset, ownership needs to buy in. VPs, GMs, and Presidents come and go but ownership typically doesn't.

When all is said and done in that 10 years, John McD and StanBo may have moved on but Rocky will still be there. Does he buy in to possibly leaving the team devoid of young talent (and in Hartmann's and Vinny's case, local young talent) in order to get a player that MAY fit in to a position of need? We all drooled at getting Ladd last year and it didn't work so well. That's the nature of the game.

The other question I would have is how does Q feel about getting a player who is a career -44. Guys that were traded for at last year's deadline weren't used because they got in the doghouse, which was a giant waste. Let's say Duchene ends up here and doesn't get back on a 3 on 2 that leads to a GWG. What's the reaction from Q? You aren't going to sit a $6,000,000 trade deadline deal, are you?
- DMCsPulledHammy

Team management is fully bought in.

For proof, what did the Hawks do at the last two TDLs when all the capologists here and elsewhere were screaming not to trade "the future" away and "there's no cap room!"?

Right.

Kessler wasn't ever as bad as the rabid Toronto media and fanbase made him out to be. He had a sense of humour about it and they didn't appreciate his "flippant" attitude. Watch him with the pens; he backchecks consistently and does it well. Smart hockey player. And it isn't because our Lord and Savior Crosby fills the locker room with the Holy Spirit.

I'd like to keep an open mind, but I'm convinced Vanek is who he is at this point.
- kinigitt

Kessel, not Kessler

Seems Colorado is becoming impossible to make a deal with.
Comes down to
Can Bowman include Hartman and afford Duchene next year?
If he can make that work I think the deal happens.
If next year isn't in the plan the trade is dead.

My guess is Hartman stays and FO moves onto Plan B.
- Colbyboy

If I had to bet my money today, you're probably right. Then again, I'm not betting on anything today.

Forget the 16 goals and trading him for Hartman. On a stand alone basis Duchene is an excellent hockey player and he wouldn't have made Team Canada under Babcock twice if he wasn't. The kid can play and he has speed to burn.

But, I don't see it happening with the Hawks - Sakic is looking to hit a grand slam and his player's salary kills it unless of course a comparable contract comes off of Stan's books.
- RickJ

Yes.

Forget the 16 goals and trading him for Hartman. On a stand alone basis Duchene is an excellent hockey player and he wouldn't have made Team Canada under Babcock twice if he wasn't. The kid can play and he has speed to burn.

But, I don't see it happening with the Hawks - Sakic is looking to hit a grand slam and his player's salary kills it unless of course a comparable contract comes off of Stan's books.
- RickJ

I think you have to ask if he would fit here, though.

Hartman slots in well and just sort of "works" on the Hawks and with their system.

With Duchene, it could be the Gretz/Hull thing. Remember when Gretzky went to St. Louis and everyone thought that him and Hull together would be the greatest tandem of all time...but it didn't work out. Obviously not comparing anyone skill wise, but more so situation wise.

Sometimes, I think we dream about some big name guy playing on the same line with Toews, Kane, etc., but the truth of the matter is, those dudes might not work out well.

Would Duchene compliment Toews and the other guys around him, or not? I don't know. It would be interesting to see, though...

Totally agree. It could be a great, good, so so, or bad trade to acquire Duchene, Palat, Hanzal, Landeskog, Tatar, Vanek or anyone else. It depends on what you give up and it depends on how this effects your ability to make additional moves at the TDL, the expansion draft, or during the summer.
- -Doh-

Insightful.

@RumorBreak
#BREAKING - Hearing the Flames are quietly shopping Sam Bennett. He is available.
- walleyeb1

That's hard to understand. Wasn't he like top five in the draft a couple years ago?

Let's hope Stan swings for the fences and gets an elite talent like Alex Burrows.

Another option from Vancouver would be Jannik Hansen. His cap hit is only $2.5 million and I'm sure the Canucks could retain some salary, for a price.
- DarthKane

Yes, get Burrows. Hawks need a hair-puller.

I'd like to think Sakic is looking for a Shattenkirk/Trouba, another roster player,
A-level prospect, and high draft picks.
- 93Joe

Shattenkirk has no value as a pending UFA for Duchene. Sakic would do Trouba for Duchene but not likely Winnipeg.

Hartman has 14 goals playing mostly 3rd line minutes as a Rookie. Meanwhile, $6million dollar man Duchene has 16 goals. Hartman plays physical, goes to the net, drops the gloves, is cost-controlled, and is a Chicago kid. Hartman going to Colorado for Duchene doesn't make much sense to me!!
- EnzoD

Yes, a voice of reason.

Seeing what Scotty did for Steveie Y's career, he should just hand him over, right?
- powerenforcer

I doubt it my friend......

Not sure what it would take, but I am coming around to the idea of Patrick Eaves. He's cheap, he's having a career year, he can play up and down the lineup. Not sure what Nill wants, but maybe one of their 5th rounders and a throw in like Sveddy or McNeill?

I can't imagine Nill would get too much for him. But, I'm not a GM, could be wrong.
- CanOCorn

I would be ok with adding him at the right (cheap) price if Dallas retained some salary. This is the case of Dallas trying to sell high. 16 of his 37 points have been on the power play. He is a minus 10. He has played for 5 different teams in the last 11 years and only hit the 30 point mark one time before this year and that was 10 years ago. Maybe they would take Desjardins or Tootoo and a 7th round pick.

Palat-Toews-Hossa
- 93Joe

That's a scary line to play against

Hartman seems like he can become a very useful player. But, is he seen to be a top 6 guy? I don't think so...at least the jury is out on that.

On the other hand, Duchene/Palat *IS* considered a top 6 guy on just about any team.

If StanBo moves a big salary in the summer (CC? Seabs?) one of those guys will be easier to afford under the cap.

What I'm saying is, if I were the Blackhawk FO, I wouldn't hold onto the "great Ryan Hartman", if there's a reasonable belief they can win another Cup with the addition of either of those two guys.

Cups are more important than Ryan Hartman.

@RumorBreak
#BREAKING - Hearing the Flames are quietly shopping Sam Bennett. He is available.
- walleyeb1

It ain't quiet anymore....

Yes, get Burrows. Hawks need a hair-puller.
- BMWChiFan

I don't think that one will ever stop being funny.

Forget the 16 goals and trading him for Hartman. On a stand alone basis Duchene is an excellent hockey player and he wouldn't have made Team Canada under Babcock twice if he wasn't. The kid can play and he has speed to burn.

But, I don't see it happening with the Hawks - Sakic is looking to hit a grand slam and his player's salary kills it unless of course a comparable contract comes off of Stan's books.
- RickJ

Duchene is a very skilled and offensively talented player. He is a true Top 6 Winger and still in his prime. I just think that Hartman is a guy you want to have on your team both this year and moving forward. He looks to be a 20 goal, physical, winger that can play on any line and be effective. The salary is the biggest issue. Sure, you'd do Hartman for Duchene straight up (if salary worked), but the trade would likely be Hartman ++ and I'm not sure how much better that makes the Hawks this year and moving forward.

@RumorBreak
#BREAKING - Hearing the Flames are quietly shopping Sam Bennett. He is available.
- walleyeb1

I'd take a chance on Bennett for the bottom 6, but I'm guess Calgary would want a significant return for him.

I would be ok with adding him at the right (cheap) price if Dallas retained some salary. This is the case of Dallas trying to sell high. 16 of his 37 points have been on the power play. He is a minus 10. He has played for 5 different teams in the last 11 years and only hit the 30 point mark one time before this year and that was 10 years ago. Maybe they would take Desjardins or Tootoo and a 7th round pick.
- -Doh-

Retained some salary? His cap hit is only $1 mil silly guy