Well in my defense, I'm not French.
- MJL

+10 more respect

Agreed. At some point you have to look at the team and its cap in aggregate. Way too often people focus too much on the individual parts. Matt Read is a good example. Sure he's overpaid, but he makes the team better. They are under the cap with his hit, and its not like they have better options to use his money on.

As long as the Hextall continues to stay away from big UFA deals, they should be in a good position to resign all their youth when the time comes.
- JFlyers00

Read is a great example. He's only signed through next season and people act like he's carrying some albatross because he's overpaid by $500k - $1M.

If the Flyers were legit contenders and right up against the cap, then I could understand the urgency to clear space, but that's simply not the case.

Also, from an asset management position, it's just a bad move to trade a guy when he's having a bad year unless you feel he's only going to get worse. Based on the metrics, I'd say it's likely Giroux rebounds and gets back to a more respectable level. Maybe if they have a goalie with above an .879 save percentage when he's on the ice, his +/- will look better!

Yeah. I think people also have a difficult time understanding that just because he's overpaid at 8.275M doesn't mean that the Flyers are wasting 8.275M per year. Maybe Giroux is worth more like $5M over the next 5 years. So he's overpaid by $3.275M. Whatever. He's very important to the franchise, the team isn't really going anywhere any time soon and (hopefully) they'll be rebuilding with youth on cheap contracts anyway.

People want to clear his money so they can sign who? Backes? Eriksson? Ladd? Okposo?
- PhillySportsGuy

I can believe Giroux is past his prime and no longer a superstar and not the best player on a Cup team and the 1C position is a concern going forward....without saying he is washed up and a year or two away from being Vinny. With the entire team issues 5v5, he gets a mulligan. They all do. Except Couturier. Although if coaching strategies aren't adjusted, this could be a thing.

I don't expect his 5v5 production to return to elite territory at 2.0 p/60+. It hasn't been that for 3 years. But if it settles in at solid 2C levels ~1.5-1.7, with his always elite PP presence and 2-way play, that's still a very useful 60-65 point player. And his worth to the team can't be understated. $5 mil may be a low ball still for the player described. What do people want to do? Sell him for pennies on the dollar? I don't think this is wishful thinking that this is just a fluky season.

So now Giroux is having a bad year due to bad luck? Sorry, that fails the eye test miserably.

If Hextall isn't at least listening to offers I worry about his abilty as a GM.

If Giroux is indeed hurt he is not doing this club any favors by playing through it. Shut it down and heal appropriately. Same goes for the organization if the player has been fully communicative.

And no this is not an overreaction. A player signed to that contract with 6 more years on his deal declining this rapidly cannot be understated. He is being paid like a top player and not performing remotely close to one. And no, the sample size is not too small.

- flyer_nutter

At 5v5:

1st GF% (Only skater who doesn't get outscored while on the ice)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

1st CF% (Play driver)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

3rd among Flyers' skaters in xGF% (Weighted CF%)

Yeah. I think people also have a difficult time understanding that just because he's overpaid at 8.275M doesn't mean that the Flyers are wasting 8.275M per year. Maybe Giroux is worth more like $5M over the next 5 years. So he's overpaid by $3.275M. Whatever. He's very important to the franchise, the team isn't really going anywhere any time soon and (hopefully) they'll be rebuilding with youth on cheap contracts anyway.

People want to clear his money so they can sign who? Backes? Eriksson? Ladd? Okposo?
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed. At some point you have to look at the team and its cap in aggregate. Way too often people focus too much on the individual parts. Matt Read is a good example. Sure he's overpaid, but he makes the team better. They are under the cap with his hit, and its not like they have better options to use his money on.

As long as the Hextall continues to stay away from big UFA deals, they should be in a good position to resign all their youth when the time comes.
- JFlyers00

I dont think it is necessarily to that level, I just think the cap hit and the production arent really tied together like people assume. The Flyers should be interested in signing guys to the lowest cap hit possible, but they arent paying for X points per million dollars or anything like that. That is something that happens in the NFL, not the NHL

At 5v5:

1st GF% (Only skater who doesn't get outscored while on the ice)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

1st CF% (Play driver)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

3rd among Flyers' skaters in xGF% (Weighted CF%)
- JFlyers00

-50 respect

So now Giroux is having a bad year due to bad luck? Sorry, that fails the eye test miserably.

If Hextall isn't at least listening to offers I worry about his abilty as a GM.

If Giroux is indeed hurt he is not doing this club any favors by playing through it. Shut it down and heal appropriately. Same goes for the organization if the player has been fully communicative.

And no this is not an overreaction. A player signed to that contract with 6 more years on his deal declining this rapidly cannot be understated. He is being paid like a top player and not performing remotely close to one. And no, the sample size is not too small.
- StepfordSam

dont confuse the term luck with pucks randomly deflecting off things to go in or stay out of the net.

the same way "possession" really doesnt mean one team holding onto the puck. there are a number of reasons why good things arent happening while Giroux is on the ice, but they all dont mean he is cooked and needs to be traded

-50 respect
- Mononoke

Kim Jong Mononoke

-50 respect
- Mononoke

At 5v5:

1st GF% (Only skater who doesn't get outscored while on the ice)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

1st CF% (Play driver)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

3rd among Flyers' skaters in xGF% (Weighted CF%)
- JFlyers00

MEAT READ!

At 5v5:

1st GF% (Only skater who doesn't get outscored while on the ice)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

1st CF% (Play driver)
http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

3rd among Flyers' skaters in xGF% (Weighted CF%)
- JFlyers00

I went to a game and only watched matt read. All he does is shoot pucks blindly to get corsi's, he quickly skates to the bench and jumps off if theres an odd man rush, and pretended to hand a puck to a kid in pregame warmups only to keep it for himself

dont confuse the term luck with pucks randomly deflecting off things to go in or stay out of the net.

the same way "possession" really doesnt mean one team holding onto the puck. there are a number of reasons why good things arent happening while Giroux is on the ice, but they all dont mean he is cooked and needs to be traded
- YuenglingJagr

But the point where we see this team being very mercurial in nature for the time he's been here under 3 different coaches could lead to some wanting a change in the leadership core which might lead to him being traded.

I can believe Giroux is past his prime and no longer a superstar and not the best player on a Cup team and the 1C position is a concern going forward....without saying he is washed up and a year or two away from being Vinny. With the entire team issues 5v5, he gets a mulligan. They all do. Except Couturier. Although if coaching strategies aren't adjusted, this could be a thing.

I don't expect his 5v5 production to return to elite territory at 2.0 p/60+. It hasn't been that for 3 years. But if it settles in at solid 2C levels ~1.5-1.7, with his always elite PP presence and 2-way play, that's still a very useful 60-65 point player. And his worth to the team can't be understated. $5 mil may be a low ball still for the player described. What do people want to do? Sell him for pennies on the dollar? I don't think this is wishful thinking that this is just a fluky season.
- Mononoke

all depends on the expectation as to how fluky it all is. I dont think he will ever score at an elite pace again, especially at ES, but like you mentioned he doesnt need to

- Streit2ThePoint

You (frank)ed up.

I wanted Staal. Mono wanted Marcheassault. You wanted Ladd. J35 wanted Boedker. SSB wanted Ott.

So now Giroux is having a bad year due to bad luck? Sorry, that fails the eye test miserably.

If Hextall isn't at least listening to offers I worry about his abilty as a GM.

If Giroux is indeed hurt he is not doing this club any favors by playing through it. Shut it down and heal appropriately. Same goes for the organization if the player has been fully communicative.

And no this is not an overreaction. A player signed to that contract with 6 more years on his deal declining this rapidly cannot be understated. He is being paid like a top player and not performing remotely close to one. And no, the sample size is not too small.
- StepfordSam

*5 more years

But the point where we see this team being very mercurial in nature for the time he's been here under 3 different coaches could lead to some wanting a change in the leadership core which might lead to him being traded.
- dragonoffrost

in other words...change for the sake of change

You (frank)ed up.

I wanted Staal. Mono wanted Marcheassault. You wanted Ladd. J35 wanted Boedker. SSB wanted Ott.
- PhillySportsGuy

I wanted Stamkos

I went to a game and only watched matt read. All he does is shoot pucks blindly to get corsi's, he quickly skates to the bench and jumps off if theres an odd man rush, and pretended to hand a puck to a kid in pregame warmups only to keep it for himself
- YuenglingJagr

Every player on the team cannot just have a terrible dip in 5v5 scoring season all together, independent of which line they play on even, despite average-above average scoring every other year, and it's only related to individuals. There are individual stories with certain players to discuss, but the issue is that these team issues are being blurred together with those to create new questionable narratives.

Simmonds is scoring at worse rates than Couturier and the same as Read almost, but because everyone loves him we hear that he's been the ONLY bright spot and needs to be captain. Brayden Schenn is scoring just as poorly as Giroux. Is that because he is declining?

We are the second worst scoring team in the NHL, despite way too much talent, even if we were never great 5v5. The fact is, the entire team from top to bottom, scores like degrees of a bottom 6.

I can believe Giroux is past his prime and no longer a superstar and not the best player on a Cup team and the 1C position is a concern going forward....without saying he is washed up and a year or two away from being Vinny. With the entire team issues 5v5, he gets a mulligan. They all do. Except Couturier. Although if coaching strategies aren't adjusted, this could be a thing.

I don't expect his 5v5 production to return to elite territory at 2.0 p/60+. It hasn't been that for 3 years. But if it settles in at solid 2C levels ~1.5-1.7, with his always elite PP presence and 2-way play, that's still a very useful 60-65 point player. And his worth to the team can't be understated. $5 mil may be a low ball still for the player described. What do people want to do? Sell him for pennies on the dollar? I don't think this is wishful thinking that this is just a fluky season.
- Mononoke

Simply put, when you factor everything into it (contract, production, NMC), Giroux has more value to the Flyers than he does as a trade piece. He's not going to bring back anything significant and the Flyers will likely have to eat money anyway, so why not just keep him for secondary scoring. Hopefully they figure out a way to get primary scoring.

Gudas traded ?

Every player on the team cannot just have a terrible dip in 5v5 scoring season all together, independent of which line they play on even, despite average-above average scoring every other year, and it's only related to individuals. There are individual stories with certain players to discuss, but the issue is that these team issues are being blurred together with those to create new questionable narratives.

Simmonds is scoring at worse rates than Couturier and the same as Read almost, but because everyone loves him we hear that he's been the ONLY bright spot and needs to be captain. Brayden Schenn is scoring just as poorly as Giroux. Is that because he is declining?

We are the second worst scoring team in the NHL, despite way too much talent, even if we were never great 5v5. The fact is, the entire team from top to bottom, scores like degrees of a bottom 6.
- Mononoke

As long as they get pucks in deep and get pucks to the net, everything should turn around