Because they do. It's a pretty basic right, actually.

This isn't some blog for you to process your feelings. It's a service industry. You put out content, and people "pay" you with clicks and views, which are monetized via ad revenue. When people tell you stay away from politics, they are giving you feedback on what service they are willing to continue "paying" for.

It's the height of arrogance to think you are going to expose people to something they haven't heard before, and even worse to think you have the credibility that you saying something will hold more weight than actual political commentators. People see everything you say elsewhere. They come to talk sports when they are tired of that. If you can't provide them a space to, I'm sure someone else will.
- Antilles

Take Gretzky out of the equation, and you would say the same thing about when he played. The only thing that makes it seem like there are so many players at such a high level nowadays is the fact that there is no one head and shoulders above them, the way Gretzky was in his time.
- Antilles

Fair point


I guess I have this idea in my head that Crosby would just beast on defenders and goalies of the 80's.

But yeah- maybe I'm marginalizing gurtz's greatness abit here

Look this is for hockey not your political views, way to blow your own horn and talk about your M.A .
- Upstate_isles

The fact it's an MA not an MS says a lot. I'm guessing it was in something like English. Essentially a worthless degree, no scientific research classes, all it really qualifies you for is teaching other people English.

Taking away how much more difficult it is to score in today's NHL, do you think that a way to judge the two players against each other would be to compare how well they did against other players during their era?

Gretzky had a string of Art Ross trophy's while Crosby only has two. In my opinion, that shows how much more "generational" Gretzky was.

I might not be articulating this as well as I like.
- rmiethaner

This is like the Mario argument!!!!!!!! you do realize he would have had 4-5 minus injuries... the concussion years and taking a Brooks Orpik shot to the face!!! Go ahead say it...should of, could of, would of. that's not he point!!!!!!!!!! You cant just look at pure stats!!!!

How you or I feel is not the issue! Wayne Gretzky is one of the all-time greats! That is not the issue! But, Revolutionized the game???? I provided two examples that are clear and straight forward! Did teams change the way they played the way they did for Mario? I don't see it! In addition James Tanner has stated on multiple occasions that Mario was the most talented ever (Including Gretzky)... Wayne was amazing, best career no question... but Mario was another level
- Brianandr1

Tanner feels a need to quantify things in definitive boxes. That's what a steady diet of analytics will do to you. What made Gretzky the greatest isn't something you can really put numbers too....unless you count the myriad of unbreakable records he set. Even at his best Mario was merely at Gretz' level, not past. There is literally no way to disprove this.

This is like the Mario argument!!!!!!!! you do realize he would have had 4-5 minus injuries... the concussion years and taking a Brooks Orpik shot to the face!!! Go ahead say it...should of, could of, would of. that's not he point!!!!!!!!!! You cant just look at pure stats!!!!
- Brianandr1

I doubt you're gonna find too many people whove seen gretzs body of work and got a chance to see him in his prime that will say ANYBODY ever was 'on another level'

Admittedly, I didn't. Only saw the latter half of his career. but The oilers fans I know of that age would vehemently argue for their home town guy against your home team guy

Both are amazing. That's all I can say for sure

Tanner feels a need to quantify things in definitive boxes. That's what a steady diet of analytics will do to you. What made Gretzky the greatest isn't something you can really put numbers too....unless you count the myriad of unbreakable records he set. Even at his best Mario was merely at Gretz' level, not past. There is literally no way to disprove this.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

When I think of all his records- the one that truly blows my mind is 50 goals in 39 games.
That's absolutely nutty

Fair point


I guess I have this idea in my head that Crosby would just beast on defenders and goalies of the 80's.

But yeah- maybe I'm marginalizing gurtz's greatness abit here
- HB77

People forget how nasty the game was back in those days. Crosby has been accused of being rather whiny in a day and age where the rules protect the stars. Gretz played in an era where bench clearing brawls ween't unusual, padding was minimal and brutal thugs made NHL rosters simply because they were brutal thugs. It wasn't just Semenko protecting him either. Gretzky knew how to avoid trouble.

Tanner feels a need to quantify things in definitive boxes. That's what a steady diet of analytics will do to you. What made Gretzky the greatest isn't something you can really put numbers too....unless you count the myriad of unbreakable records he set. Even at his best Mario was merely at Gretz' level, not past. There is literally no way to disprove this.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Mario was on pace to beat 215 point in a season when he was hurt, still only on pace though can't prove he would have done it. I think Mario was the most talented especially with his size and strength, however staying healthy and having longevity is also part of the equation. Im a Mario guy and he probably started to replace 99 as the best when he got sick, but that's the problem he got sick and we will never rally know what he could have done. So based on that the nod goes to 99 for me begrudgingly.

Fair point


I guess I have this idea in my head that Crosby would just beast on defenders and goalies of the 80's.

But yeah- maybe I'm marginalizing gurtz's greatness abit here
- HB77

I'm sure Crosby would... but it's a false equivalency really. Gretzky was twice as good as everyone in his day already. Imagine if Gretzky had grown up in the system Crosby did, which was much better at developing players, having the chance to grow against much better competition earlier, having better gear, better support in every way his entire career... Crosby could have done super well against the competition Gretzky faced. But give Gretzky all the advantages Crosby has had, and still face the competition of his day, and how much more dominant would he have been?

People forget how nasty the game was back in those days. Crosby has been accused of being rather whiny in a day and age where the rules protect the stars. Gretz played in an era where bench clearing brawls ween't unusual, padding was minimal and brutal thugs made NHL rosters simply because they were brutal thugs. It wasn't just Semenko protecting him either. Gretzky knew how to avoid trouble.
- TheTaoOfSemenko

Those brutal thugs also were total pylons for better players

I'll bet anything Sakic preferred facing (insert cementhead here ) than a functional tough guy like any number of decent players nowadays

Just sayin

When I think of all his records- the one that truly blows my mind is 50 goals in 39 games.
That's absolutely nutty
- HB77

Do you think he would do that vs today's size skill speed and goalies? Impossible to know but today's athletes are so much better than the 80s especially the way goalies play. I love bossy but I see some of the goals he scored and I think no way those go in today.

When I think of all his records- the one that truly blows my mind is 50 goals in 39 games.
That's absolutely nutty
- HB77

For me it's either the 92 goal year or the 163 assist year.

Think about it like this: the 83-84 Oilers scored 446 goals (insanity. still stands and probably always will) and Gretzky had 87 goals and 205 pts. He scored close to 20% of the goals that year and was directly involved in almost 50% of the offence. That is absolutely mind blowing.

He wasn't a player on a team full of hall of famers. He helped create most of them.

I'm sure Crosby would... but it's a false equivalency really. Gretzky was twice as good as everyone in his day already. Imagine if Gretzky had grown up in the system Crosby did, which was much better at developing players, having the chance to grow against much better competition earlier, having better gear, better support in every way his entire career... Crosby could have done super well against the competition Gretzky faced. But give Gretzky all the advantages Crosby has had, and still face the competition of his day, and how much more dominant would he have been?
- Antilles

I'm struggling to think of quality counterpoints


Good post

Mario was on pace to beat 215 point in a season when he was hurt, still only on pace though can't prove he would have done it. I think Mario was the most talented especially with his size and strength, however staying healthy and having longevity is also part of the equation. Im a Mario guy and he probably started to replace 99 as the best when he got sick, but that's the problem he got sick and we will never rally know what he could have done. So based on that the nod goes to 99 for me begrudgingly.
- Upstate_isles

Gretz had a ton of back problems in the 90s too don't forget.

I'm sure Crosby would... but it's a false equivalency really. Gretzky was twice as good as everyone in his day already. Imagine if Gretzky had grown up in the system Crosby did, which was much better at developing players, having the chance to grow against much better competition earlier, having better gear, better support in every way his entire career... Crosby could have done super well against the competition Gretzky faced. But give Gretzky all the advantages Crosby has had, and still face the competition of his day, and how much more dominant would he have been?
- Antilles

People make the same argument in other sports as well for guys like Jim Brown and Wilt Chamberlain. Sadly, we won't ever really know, and you realistically have to break down individual greatness by era.

Do you think he would do that vs today's size skill speed and goalies? Impossible to know but today's athletes are so much better than the 80s especially the way goalies play. I love bossy but I see some of the goals he scored and I think no way those go in today.
- Upstate_isles

Dunno. I think his playmaking would be fairly comparable today. But his goal totals would almost certainly take a big hit

Goalies are on a whole other level now

When I think of all his records- the one that truly blows my mind is 50 goals in 39 games.
That's absolutely nutty
- HB77

Stated like a true Edmonton (greatest team of all time ) perspective... its cool ... ill read it... JUST two questions???DO you know who Rob Brown is? and How many goals did he score with Mario?

I'm sure Crosby would... but it's a false equivalency really. Gretzky was twice as good as everyone in his day already. Imagine if Gretzky had grown up in the system Crosby did, which was much better at developing players, having the chance to grow against much better competition earlier, having better gear, better support in every way his entire career... Crosby could have done super well against the competition Gretzky faced. But give Gretzky all the advantages Crosby has had, and still face the competition of his day, and how much more dominant would he have been?
- Antilles

This is plausible I think Crosby would still be a better athlete overall, faster , stronger but it's a good argument. We need that computer simulation from balboa to settle this

Dunno. I think his playmaking would be fairly comparable today. But his goal totals would almost certainly take a big hit

Goalies are on a whole other level now
- HB77

True..but he also had to venture near psychos like Smith and Hextall. Goalies are better going near the blue paint is a lot less dangerous lol.

Stated like a true Edmonton (greatest team of all time ) perspective... its cool ... ill read it... JUST two questions???DO you know who Rob Brown is? and How many goals did he score with Mario?
- Brianandr1

What does that have to do with what he said?

Dunno. I think his playmaking would be fairly comparable today. But his goal totals would almost certainly take a big hit

Goalies are on a whole other level now
- HB77

I flagged this by accident sorry. When you look at the goalies of the eighties they were so small, their equipment was so small, they did the stand up kick style it's really the biggest difference I think in hockey over the last 30-40 years the style of goaltending and their athletic ability

What does that have to do with what he said?
- TheTaoOfSemenko

UMMM??? Everything!!!! I pointed out 2 WAYS THAT Mario REVOLUTIONIZED hockey... there was zero response other then stats... We ve been there and addressed that issue... edm in the 80's might be the greatest team ever ... the 88-89 Penguins??????? Not so much... look at the stats! Look up Rob Brown!!!! HOW did that happen? Please explain? (WE all know hoe good Kurri was)

UMMM??? Everything!!!! I pointed out 2 WAYS THAT Mario REVOLUTIONIZED hockey... there was zero response other then stats... We ve been there and addressed that issue... edm in the 80's might be the greatest team ever ... the 88-89 Penguins??????? Not so much... look at the stats! Look up Rob Brown!!!! HOW did that happen? Please explain? (WE all know hoe good Kurri was)
- Brianandr1

I can break down the severe drop off Kurri experienced post-Gretz if you like, as well as a number of other Oilers.

Can you please write a few more words in caps and include some more exclamation points and question marks. I might understand better.

Stated like a true Edmonton (greatest team of all time ) perspective... its cool ... ill read it... JUST two questions???DO you know who Rob Brown is? and How many goals did he score with Mario?
- Brianandr1

Bernie Nichols had a 70 goal and 150 point campaign alongside gretz...

Blair macDonald (me neither ...) scored 46 with him.
Never cracked 20 again after that


Listen, I'm not slagging Mario at all. But talking about making linemates 'better' isn't a solid point to use against gretzky