thanks
- jmatchett383

Well if your opinions weren't always so bad I would know when you were trolling.
- Feds91Stammer

Look who's talking

its ok, people just looked at Hutton's stat sheet as they did with Schultz when he was on Edmonton and formalized that he must suck for eternity.
- nelson911

Schultz was severely overrated in his first few years in EDM, as well as put in a position to fail on the top pairing when he wasn't read. But he still put up points on a very bad team, and no one ever doubted his offensive abilities. There are a few people here that thought he could play well in a reduced role in Pittsburgh. I was one of them, it was the exact type of low risk high reward play the Pens should be looking to make again. Even with his perceived bad play, he still had very good analytics when it came to generating offense.



Hutton on the other hand, his analytics are not very good, and he has regressed in point totals since last year as well. He's also needs PP time to really produce, and there's not of that for him in PIT.

Give me Scandella and Ollofson then and it's a deal.
- Dcoms

I don't know much about Ollofson (I'm guessing I'll be told shortly that he sucks) but I think Scandella could be available (I'm guessing I'll be told shortly that he sucks), but probably not for Hagelin.

Look who's talking
- Dcoms

Buddy your inability to comprehend logic doesn't make me a troll.

Yeah the first name anyone thinks of when you mention offense is Hagelen. Any dumb comment to troll though right?
- Dcoms

Um.. wut?

Minnesota is 4th in the NHL in goals for, and 2nd in goals against. Why the (frank) would they move a D for Hagelin? You really offer some awful opinions.

Schultz was severely overrated in his first few years in EDM, as well as put in a position to fail on the top pairing when he wasn't read. But he still put up points on a very bad team, and no one ever doubted his offensive abilities. There are a few people here that thought he could play well in a reduced role in Pittsburgh. I was one of them, it was the exact type of low risk high reward play the Pens should be looking to make again. Even with his perceived bad play, he still had very good analytics when it came to generating offense.



Hutton on the other hand, his analytics are not very good, and he has regressed in point totals since last year as well. He's also needs PP time to really produce, and there's not of that for him in PIT.
- j.boyd919

Not going to start an analytics debate, but I think Schultz' numbers can be attributed somewhat to his team. No one ever doubted his offensive skills, but he seemed to play almost as a rover on an Edmonton team with bad defense. So while he was on the ice for a lot of offensive chances, any time he pinched, it was a guaranteed 2-on-1 the other way. Just what I think may have been the case.

Not going to start an analytics debate, but I think Schultz' numbers can be attributed somewhat to his team. No one ever doubted his offensive skills, but he seemed to play almost as a rover on an Edmonton team with bad defense. So while he was on the ice for a lot of offensive chances, any time he pinched, it was a guaranteed 2-on-1 the other way. Just what I think may have been the case.
- jmatchett383

Yeah EDM played him as a top pair do it all guy when in reality he has always been a 2/3rd pair offensive PP specialist.

Not going to start an analytics debate, but I think Schultz' numbers can be attributed somewhat to his team. No one ever doubted his offensive skills, but he seemed to play almost as a rover on an Edmonton team with bad defense. So while he was on the ice for a lot of offensive chances, any time he pinched, it was a guaranteed 2-on-1 the other way. Just what I think may have been the case.
- jmatchett383

I think more of the problem is playing in a role over his head, incompetent d-partners, bad coaches, and overall bad teams. I don't really think he's changed his game THAT much from EDM to PIT. I just think PIT has a better system, better talent, a more stable d partner for him, and a more limited role (although he is excelling in a more elevated role this season.)

I think more of the problem is playing in a role over his head, incompetent d-partners, bad coaches, and overall bad teams. I don't really think he's changed his game THAT much from EDM to PIT. I just think PIT has a better system, better talent, a more stable d partner for him, and a more limited role (although he is excelling in a more elevated role this season.)
- j.boyd919

That's sort of what I was trying to say, sorry if it didn't come across well.

That's sort of what I was trying to say, sorry if it didn't come across well.
- jmatchett383

Oh haha, well that's why I think his offensive analytics were solid, and defensive bad. But a guy like hutton, his analytics are bottom 6 with top 4 TOI. At least Schultz had quality offensive analytics to go along with his Top line TOI.

Schultz was severely overrated in his first few years in EDM, as well as put in a position to fail on the top pairing when he wasn't read. But he still put up points on a very bad team, and no one ever doubted his offensive abilities. There are a few people here that thought he could play well in a reduced role in Pittsburgh. I was one of them, it was the exact type of low risk high reward play the Pens should be looking to make again. Even with his perceived bad play, he still had very good analytics when it came to generating offense.



Hutton on the other hand, his analytics are not very good, and he has regressed in point totals since last year as well. He's also needs PP time to really produce, and there's not of that for him in PIT.
- j.boyd919

Hutton has 3 more goals already over last year, is 1-2 pts off his total projections from last year and has 24 games to go... splitting hairs?

Justin Schultz leaves... and a PP spot opens for Hutton.

Um.. wut?

Minnesota is 4th in the NHL in goals for, and 2nd in goals against. Why the (frank) would they move a D for Hagelin? You really offer some awful opinions.
- j.boyd919

And you offer no opinion at all you just get off on $hitting on everyone else's.

Not going to start an analytics debate, but I think Schultz' numbers can be attributed somewhat to his team. No one ever doubted his offensive skills, but he seemed to play almost as a rover on an Edmonton team with bad defense. So while he was on the ice for a lot of offensive chances, any time he pinched, it was a guaranteed 2-on-1 the other way. Just what I think may have been the case.
- jmatchett383

I pitched Shultz as a trade target last year around the beginning of February and people like the guy from Florida with the stupid dog picture called me every name in the book. That's why their opinions mean less than nothing to me. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box. Explore every option. If the analytics crowd was in charge of every decision hockey would be bland.

And you offer no opinion at all you just get off on $hitting on everyone else's.
- Dcoms

I offer my opinion all the time, with data and stats to back it up, you dummy.

I pitched Shultz as a trade target last year around the beginning of February and people like the guy from Florida with the stupid dog picture called me every name in the book. That's why their opinions mean less than nothing to me. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box. Explore every option. If the analytics crowd was in charge of every decision hockey would be bland.
- Dcoms

I poked holes in your overall trade, because you wanted to trade 4 pieces for 3 pieces in some absolutely ridiculous trade proposal that included Schultz, Eric Gyrba and Teddy Purcell for like Kunitz, Cole, a 1st, and someone else. I said THAT was a bad trade, because it was. Once GMJR acquired Schultz for free, as a low reward, high risk move, I liked it. Get your facts straight idiot.

I pitched Shultz as a trade target last year around the beginning of February and people like the guy from Florida with the stupid dog picture called me every name in the book. That's why their opinions mean less than nothing to me. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box. Explore every option. If the analytics crowd was in charge of every decision hockey would be bland.
- Dcoms

Analytics for mediocre teams can be so misleading... thats why every team sends scouts to watch players and then possibly form a secondary conclusion with analytics after several hockey staff review actual play. Yes Arizona and Florida are big on it... but ummm they haven't won anything yet. I've watched Hutton for a year and a half on tv and would definitely take a stab if the price is not high. Good teams must always look to take good young players from the other teams that are struggling with them.

Analytics for mediocre teams can be so misleading... thats why every team sends scouts to watch players and then possibly form a secondary conclusion with analytics after several hockey staff review actual play. Yes Arizona and Florida are big on it... but ummm they haven't won anything yet. I've watched Hutton for a year and a half on tv and would definitely take a stab if the price is not high. Good teams must always look to take good young players from the other teams that are struggling with them.
- nelson911

BTW PIT is big on analytics...

Analytics for mediocre teams can be so misleading... thats why every team sends scouts to watch players and then possibly form a secondary conclusion with analytics after several hockey staff review actual play. Yes Arizona and Florida are big on it... but ummm they haven't won anything yet. I've watched Hutton for a year and a half on tv and would definitely take a stab if the price is not high. Good teams must always look to take good young players from the other teams that are struggling with them.
- nelson911

You do know Pittsburgh hired an analytics guru prior to last season right?

You do know Pittsburgh hired an analytics guru prior to last season right?
- j.boyd919

Yep, did you read my post

Yep, did you read my post
- nelson911

That I did, and Arizona hired their analytics guy right in the middle of a rebuild so that hire cannot be evaluated just yet, and Florida was/is also trending in the right direction, if not for injuries to Hub and Barkov, I'm sure they would be sitting prettier than they are right now.

That I did, and Arizona hired their analytics guy right in the middle of a rebuild so that hire cannot be evaluated just yet, and Florida was/is also trending in the right direction, if not for injuries to Hub and Barkov, I'm sure they would be sitting prettier than they are right now.
- j.boyd919

So is Florida trending in the right direction because of stockpiling lots of young talent for years or because they make full analytics decisions as recently as 1 - 2 years ago?

So is Florida trending in the right direction because of stockpiling lots of young talent for years or because they make full analytics decisions as recently as 1 - 2 years ago?
- nelson911

Probably a combination of both. People who follow analytics don't ONLY follow analytics. They also watch hockey too, analytics are used to either reconfirm or help strengthen or possibly correct what someone thinks they see.

So is Florida trending in the right direction because of stockpiling lots of young talent for years or because they make full analytics decisions as recently as 1 - 2 years ago?
- nelson911

Analytics isn't just for player evaluation. It can be used for systems and usage evaluation as well.

Analytics isn't just for player evaluation. It can be used for systems and usage evaluation as well.
- Feds91Stammer

and it did a great job of finally getting rid of Rob Scuderi.... or was that just from people watching?