Is 6 weeks LTIR worthy? Can they throw him on LTIR and use the savings to snag a Dman around his cap hit? His return is right around playoff time.
- j.boyd919

not good, especially if we were planning on a deal with Maatta... can you trade someone who is injured if the other team approves? i.e. colorado isnt winning anything this year, so they wont care if he is injured, but is it allowed?

not good, especially if we were planning on a deal with Maatta... can you trade someone who is injured if the other team approves? i.e. colorado isnt winning anything this year, so they wont care if he is injured, but is it allowed?
- buckster2342

Yeah as long as the other team is cool with it

DP has to be on the move now in some sort of package for a top 4 d
- nh4442

No they just want DP to master a level and stay on development track right now.

Is 6 weeks LTIR worthy? Can they throw him on LTIR and use the savings to snag a Dman around his cap hit? His return is right around playoff time.
- j.boyd919

He's LTIR worthy, but how close are they to the cap? Pro-rating the overage (probably the wrong wording) at this point in the season may not get them much space.

Edit: With Sheary and Dupuis already on LTIR, they are $97K under the cap. The thing is, using LTIR for cap space means you don't bank any daily space, and they've had to LTIR Dupuis all season, so I don't think LTIRing Maata gives them any additional space. But I could be wrong. That's why teams refrain from using LTIR as long as they can.

He's LTIR worthy, but how close are they to the cap? Pro-rating the overage (probably the wrong wording) at this point in the season may not get them much space.
- jmatchett383

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/penguins

Honestly I have no idea, that poop confuses me so much

He's LTIR worthy, but how close are they to the cap? Pro-rating the overage (probably the wrong wording) at this point in the season may not get them much space.
- jmatchett383

1/2: Food for thought: Maatta (PIT) is out for 6 weeks - 7 weeks remain in the season - his 4M cap hit can be placed on LTIR. If the team

2/2: finishes the season above the cap, he can be reactivated for playoffs as there is no playoff salary cap

Yeah as long as the other team is cool with it
- j.boyd919

That would suck but you're right look at pronger and others on ltir whose cap hits have been moved

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/penguins

Honestly I have no idea, that poop confuses me so much
- j.boyd919

Here's how I understand it:

Each day of the season, you "bank" space calculated by the amount under the cap you are divided by days in the season, i.e. if you are $2M under and there are 200 days in the season, you bank $10,000 each day.

The "bankable space" you accrue determines who you can add to the roster (pro-rated for number of games spent on your roster).

However, when you use LTIR, while you will be under the cap by a portion of that player's salary, you do not bank any space, so roster additions are very tricky. This is why LTIRing Dupuis, while noble, was bad business. LTIR relief and cap space are not the same. They have not banked space one day this season, so salary in would pretty much have to equal salary out.

Does that make sense?

1/2: Food for thought: Maatta (PIT) is out for 6 weeks - 7 weeks remain in the season - his 4M cap hit can be placed on LTIR. If the team

2/2: finishes the season above the cap, he can be reactivated for playoffs as there is no playoff salary cap
- nh4442

Yep. That's why adding a player with a high ($2M+) cap hit could be tricky if he comes back before the season is over.

ErikBruckner ‏@ErikBruckner 2m2 minutes ago
Maatta injury blessing in disguise. LTIR will add $4M in cap relief, Maatta back for playoffs. GMJR just picked up the 📞 @CraigCustance
- YouMeAndDupuis9

No, it will not give them $4M of space. LTIR does not mean you wipe the cap hit off of the books.

No, it will not give them $4M of space. LTIR does not mean you wipe the cap hit off of the books.
- jmatchett383

I believe youre right here.

I think its prorated by the games left in the season. So (approx)4 million divided by 82 games = 48780.49 per game....say he misses rest of season...26 games x 48780.49 = 1.27 mill in cap space...

Does that all look right?

Here's how I understand it:

Each day of the season, you "bank" space calculated by the amount under the cap you are divided by days in the season, i.e. if you are $2M under and there are 200 days in the season, you bank $10,000 each day.

The "bankable space" you accrue determines who you can add to the roster (pro-rated for number of games spent on your roster).

However, when you use LTIR, while you will be under the cap by a portion of that player's salary, you do not bank any space, so roster additions are very tricky. This is why LTIRing Dupuis, while noble, was bad business. They have not banked space one day this season, so salary in would pretty much have to equal salary out.

Does that make sense?
- jmatchett383

Ahh I think so. So with Dupuis on the LTIR, they weren't gaining any space? I thought with him on IR it allowed them to make roster moves all season. Adding up their rosters cap hit right now is a little over 72.9 million... So i thought having him on LTIR did give them relief (which if not for the juggling roster, would have been banked. no?)

I believe youre right here.

I think its prorated by the games left in the season. So (approx)4 million divided by 82 games = 48780.49 per game....say he misses rest of season...26 games x 48780.49 = 1.27 mill in cap space...

Does that all look right?
- MattStrat

It's close, but it's by days past/left not games past/left. But yes, right ball park.

However, since they're already using LTIR, I don't think they get any more savings minus the $97K they currently have. I don't believe that LTIR is stackable.

It's close, but it's by days past/left not games past/left. But yes, right ball park.

However, since they're already using LTIR, I don't think they get any more savings minus the $97K they currently have. I don't believe that LTIR is stackable.
- jmatchett383

so if they find someone with a similar 4mil cap hit... isnt that prorated salary not going to be around those savings, making it fitable on the roster???

Ahh I think so. So with Dupuis on the LTIR, they weren't gaining any space? I thought with him on IR it allowed them to make roster moves all season. Adding up their rosters cap hit right now is a little over 72.9 million... So i thought having him on LTIR did give them relief (which if not for the juggling roster, would have been banked. no?)
- j.boyd919

They have relief, yes, which allows them to make moves, but it's not the same as space. I'm not an expert on the subject, but making roster moves has to do with the amount you've accrued and the amount left. So yes, it gave them roughly $3M to work with, but all of that space (minus a few hundred K) was already accounted for. I don't believe that losing Maata at this point in the season allows them to add any player of significant salary.

I wish I could explain this better. Like I said, I'm not an expert.

It's close, but it's by days past/left not games past/left. But yes, right ball park.

However, since they're already using LTIR, I don't think they get any more savings minus the $97K they currently have. I don't believe that LTIR is stackable.
- jmatchett383

hmm I thought it was...

this is from cap friendly...no mention of stackable though

https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq

so if they find someone with a similar 4mil cap hit... isnt that prorated salary not going to be around those savings, making it fitable on the roster???
- j.boyd919

No. I don't understand all of the nuances, but since they're already above the cap limit, I don't think you can do a swap of daily cap hit versus daily LTIR savings. If they were at the cap limit yesterday and then LTIRed Maata today, I believe the could.

They have relief, yes, which allows them to make moves, but it's not the same as space. I'm not an expert on the subject, but making roster moves has to do with the amount you've accrued and the amount left. So yes, it gave them roughly $3M to work with, but all of that space (minus a few hundred K) was already accounted for. I don't believe that losing Maata at this point in the season allows them to add any player of significant salary.

I wish I could explain this better. Like I said, I'm not an expert.
- jmatchett383

Yeah i know haha it's confusing. But isn't it similar to Kane getting injured a few years back? They got relief and added at the deadline and then he came back for the playoffs.

Here some more reading on LTIR.

Disclaimer: I havent read a tap of this article yet

http://www.fearthefin.com...ckey-101-long-term-injury

Yeah i know haha it's confusing. But isn't it similar to Kane getting injured a few years back? They got relief and added at the deadline and then he came back for the playoffs.
- j.boyd919

See thats the one big example i can remember...they added Vermette and a few others i believe and it all had to do with Kane's massive contract on LTIR...but if I remember correctly Kane missed a hell of a lot more time than Maatta will.

hmm I thought it was...

this is from cap friendly...no mention of stackable though

https://www.capfriendly.com/ltir-faq
- MattStrat

When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit technically remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates below the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit.

The bolded part is the most important part. Putting a player on LTIR isn't just making his cap hit vanish for the number of days he's on. Again, I'm not an expert, but the bankable space and daily LTIR relief are different animals.

Nothing but respect for Sid! he's the best player in the NHL in the new nhl game. I don't think Gretzky would have put up the same amount of points if he played in the nhl today. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the great 99 but Sid will go down as one of the best players to ever play the game not only because of his points total but his leadership and representation of the nhl. I've always had respect for the Pens; its a shame the 1000 point needed to come against my team but I'm proud of Sid and look forward to another 8-10 years of production from him!

See thats the one big example i can remember...they added Vermette and a few others i believe and it all had to do with Kane's massive contract on LTIR...but if I remember correctly Kane missed a hell of a lot more time than Maatta will.
- MattStrat

At the same time, back in 08/09, the Flyers had to trade Upshall for Carcillo (cap hits were nearly identical) when Briere came off of LTIR to keep Giroux on the roster. Again, I don't know all of the ins and outs, sorry.

Nothing but respect for Sid! he's the best player in the NHL in the new nhl game. I don't think Gretzky would have put up the same amount of points if he played in the nhl today. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the great 99 but Sid will go down as one of the best players to ever play the game not only because of his points total but his leadership and representation of the nhl. I've always had respect for the Pens; its a shame the 1000 point needed to come against my team but I'm proud of Sid and look forward to another 8-10 years of production from him!
- JetsAvs

I don't think Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr would put up the same number of points. However, assuming they were privy to all of the training/technology/equipment that today's players are, they'd still be the best players in the game today by a healthy margin. Id Sid scores 100 points, those guys would be scoring 120-ish points.

I'm taking nothing away from Crosby, and I think his talent is amazing. But I'm putting him in the group of players right after the big 3 (4 if you could Howe). First-ballot HOFer for sure, absolutely amazing player,, but more of the LaFleur/Yzerman/Jagr type, which is not taking away from Sid.

At the same time, back in 08/09, the Flyers had to trade Upshall for Carcillo (cap hits were nearly identical) when Briere came off of LTIR to keep Giroux on the roster. Again, I don't know all of the ins and outs, sorry.
- jmatchett383

Yeah like I said, with Kane, I think they got a real advantage because he missed most of the season. I dont think he was even on the opening night of the playoffs roster or if so it was his first game back.