I really like Barzal and always have and would absolutely explore trading say, Schenn, for Barzal+, but I also am not sure the Flyers love him dating back to the draft. NYI need wingers for Tavares so badly, and they might be thinking more short term than long term with pleasing JT. Schenn is a guy that might make sense to me that they'd covet. It's something I'd do diligence on.
- Mononoke

Would you do Schenn for Barzal? I would

I don't see how a player could have almost 2 assists per game, which might be tops in the CHL, and yet not pass enough. I don't exactly get that. He'll always be a guy that makes plays because he's dynamic.

He could stand to clean up some attributes in his game in simplifying things (that's how I'd describe it because I do agree in part), and could stand to fine tune defensively, but his skating is elite, his vision and passing is elite, he's real strong on the puck and with defenders on his hip, he can QB a PP, and I think he's smart on top of it all. He has a lot to like. Guys who are too good for juniors all do that stuff. Konecny did it. Marner did it. If they're smart they adjust.
- Mononoke

Maybe he prefers to skate through a team so that he can find an open teammate for an easy goal; I don't know, like I said, it was limited viewing. Canada in general didn't seem to notice the existence of their points when they had the puck.

I agree that his talent is through the roof, I just wonder if he believes that he is better than everyone around him to a fault. It was just an observation I made off of 5-6 games. That said, I'd love to acquire him.

Would you do Schenn for Barzal? I would
- YuenglingJagr

Wouldn't think twice.

Would you do Schenn for Barzal? I would
- YuenglingJagr

That's not fair value IMO. Schenn, for all his flaws, will have back to back 25 goal, 55 point seasons at age 25 and is signed for 3 more, fair $$ value years. That's worth more than just Barzal. We'd have to be talking about adding a 1st or something. And it'd probably be a mid one. That sounds fair. It's the type of deal that the Islanders actually might go for too.....as I said, Tavares needs wingers and they need some short-term gains. Trading a prospect and a 1st for an in-prime top 6 winger is just that. Who knows though what front office changes go on over there. Maybe Snow saved his job by having a playoff push. Hextall and Snow go back. There's a lot that adds up.

That's not fair value IMO. Schenn, for all his flaws, will have back to back 25 goal, 55 point seasons at age 25 and is signed for 3 more, fair $$ value years. That's worth more than just Barzal. We'd have to be talking about adding a 1st or something. And it'd probably be a mid one. That sounds fair. It's the type of deal that the Islanders actually might go for too.....as I said, Tavares needs wingers and they need some short-term gains. Trading a prospect and a 1st for an in-prime top 6 winger is just that. Who knows though what front office changes go on over there. Maybe Snow saved his job by having a playoff push. Hextall and Snow go back. There's a lot that adds up.
- Mononoke

I dont think it is fair value either, but I would still do it. Barzal+ is a no brainer, which is why I asked about straight up

That's not fair value IMO. Schenn, for all his flaws, will have back to back 25 goal, 55 point seasons at age 25 and is signed for 3 more, fair $$ value years. That's worth more than just Barzal. We'd have to be talking about adding a 1st or something. And it'd probably be a mid one. That sounds fair. It's the type of deal that the Islanders actually might go for too.....as I said, Tavares needs wingers and they need some short-term gains. Trading a prospect and a 1st for an in-prime top 6 winger is just that. Who knows though what front office changes go on over there. Maybe Snow saved his job by having a playoff push. Hextall and Snow go back. There's a lot that adds up.
- Mononoke

Depending on how the ED shapes up for NYI, it is a trade that I think makes sense for both sides. Obviously 19 year old prospects and 1st round picks are big for a budget team like NYI, but based on the ages of their team and where their core is at, it kind of fits

They've made worse decisions that is for sure (Okposo/Ladd)

There I go killing the thread with rational posts again

That or people got out of work earlier than I will

There I go killing the thread with rational posts again

That or people got out of work earlier than I will
- YuenglingJagr

I think we need to trade Giroux for Tarasenko and a 5th.

There I go killing the thread with rational posts again

That or people got out of work earlier than I will
- YuenglingJagr

I'm in Long Island for work for the last two weeks, and haven't been able to read a lot of HB...

That being said, it was actually fun to read something like that.

I'm in Long Island for work for the last two weeks, and haven't been able to read a lot of HB...

That being said, it was actually fun to read something like that.
- VladDrag

what part of long island?

I think we need to trade Giroux for Tarasenko and a 5th.
- jmatchett383

We would probably have to add Laughton

We would probably have to add Laughton
- YuenglingJagr

No deal, Laughton is Forsberg lite. Maybe if St. Louis throws in Upshall.

No deal, Laughton is Forsberg lite. Maybe if St. Louis throws in Upshall.
- jmatchett383

if his wife comes with him I will do it

if his wife comes with him I will do her
- YuenglingJagr

ftfy

what part of long island?
- YuenglingJagr

Garden City right now. My wife is coming up and we are spending the weekend in Manhattan, some perks of the Job....

ftfy
- jmatchett383

If I have to...

looks like they might not be hitched yet

she is a PSU alum

Garden City right now. My wife is coming up and we are spending the weekend in Manhattan, some perks of the Job....
- VladDrag

Getting to Long Island is one of the worst things in the world, but once you're there it is pretty cool

Maybe he prefers to skate through a team so that he can find an open teammate for an easy goal; I don't know, like I said, it was limited viewing. Canada in general didn't seem to notice the existence of their points when they had the puck.

I agree that his talent is through the roof, I just wonder if he believes that he is better than everyone around him to a fault. It was just an observation I made off of 5-6 games. That said, I'd love to acquire him.
- jmatchett383

I watched Marner take 4 minute shifts and try to out-skill everyone left and right at a level he could do so. And he got criticized a ton at the previous WJC too. People get a little too critical of prospects in short tournaments like that. Every year some prospect becomes a god and another a bust from it. I actually thought Barzal was good at the WJC. I thought he made a ton of good plays his teammates couldn't finish and weren't always in position for. Would've won the Gold if Dubois didn't miss an empty net on a great pass from Barzal. I thought he created more plays than anyone.

All draft+1/2 prospects with elite skill packages tend to try to dazzle. It's about whether they're doing it because they're just too good for the level and want to create plays or doing it because they're just not intelligent hockey players and don't know how to use teammates (and there are plenty of those I could name), and Barzal is a passing whiz. I just think it's the former for Barzal. He'll need to adjust to the pro level, but it's not like there aren't super skilled players who try to dangle the opposition or skate around with the puck on their stick to make plays. The good ones do. Vintage Giroux did. There are Ho-Sangs and Sprongs who are just greedy show-offs who aren't that bright. Barzal never strikes me as that. He's just good. Konecny tried to dangle everyone out of their jock strap in juniors. He's adjusting.

Getting to Long Island is one of the worst things in the world, but once you're there it is pretty cool
- YuenglingJagr

I found the same thing. Left last Sunday. The turnpike bridge from PA to NJ is out, so I had to go up to Trenton, added an extra 20-30mins. Traffic was fine until I hit JFK (this was at 7:30 at night, too).

I watched Marner take 4 minute shifts and try to out-skill everyone left and right at a level he could do so. And he got criticized a ton at the previous WJC too. People get a little too critical of prospects in short tournaments like that. Every year some prospect becomes a god and another a bust from it. I actually thought Barzal was good at the WJC. I thought he made a ton of good plays his teammates couldn't finish and weren't always in position for. Would've won the Gold if Dubois didn't miss an empty net on a great pass from Barzal.

All draft+1/2 prospects with elite skill packages tend to try to dazzle. It's about whether they're doing it because they're just too good for the level and want to create plays or doing it because they're just not intelligent hockey players and don't know how to use teammates (and there are plenty of those I could name), and Barzal is a passing whiz. I just think it's the former for Barzal. He'll need to adjust to the pro level, but it's not like there aren't super skilled players who try to dangle the opposition or skate around with the puck on their stick to make plays. The good ones do. Vintage Giroux did. There are Ho-Sangs and Sprongs who are just greedy show-offs. Barzal never strikes me as that.
- Mononoke

Like I said, it was an observation based on a very limited viewing in a short tournament. I could be 100% wrong.

Is that official from anywhere? It would seem kind of silly to allow NMCs to be waived for expansion draft purposes.
- JFlyers00

I don't see why. The NMC gives the player power to control his movement, and it may benefit him to waive for the ED rather than, say, get bought out.

I watched Marner take 4 minute shifts and try to out-skill everyone left and right at a level he could do so. And he got criticized a ton at the previous WJC too. People get a little too critical of prospects in short tournaments like that. Every year some prospect becomes a god and another a bust from it. I actually thought Barzal was good at the WJC. I thought he made a ton of good plays his teammates couldn't finish and weren't always in position for. Would've won the Gold if Dubois didn't miss an empty net on a great pass from Barzal. I thought he created more plays than anyone.

All draft+1/2 prospects with elite skill packages tend to try to dazzle. It's about whether they're doing it because they're just too good for the level and want to create plays or doing it because they're just not intelligent hockey players and don't know how to use teammates (and there are plenty of those I could name), and Barzal is a passing whiz. I just think it's the former for Barzal. He'll need to adjust to the pro level, but it's not like there aren't super skilled players who try to dangle the opposition or skate around with the puck on their stick to make plays. The good ones do. Vintage Giroux did. There are Ho-Sangs and Sprongs who are just greedy show-offs who aren't that bright. Barzal never strikes me as that. He's just good. Konecny tried to dangle everyone out of their jock strap in juniors. He's adjusting.
- Mononoke

To the bold point only.

That happens both ways, as you point out. Happened to Schenn after he was drafted. Went from being a potential of a 2C to a STUD can't miss 1C based off 7 games.

I dont think it is fair value either, but I would still do it. Barzal+ is a no brainer, which is why I asked about straight up
- YuenglingJagr

Depending on how the ED shapes up for NYI, it is a trade that I think makes sense for both sides. Obviously 19 year old prospects and 1st round picks are big for a budget team like NYI, but based on the ages of their team and where their core is at, it kind of fits

They've made worse decisions that is for sure (Okposo/Ladd)
- YuenglingJagr

Don't make a trade unless you get fair value. Undersell and other GMs will know it and try to exploit it in the future. A 55 point winger in his prime is worth more than a 20 year old prospect yet to turn pro. I don't think adding a mid 1st or something is actually unfair or a hard bargain.

I don't see why. The NMC gives the player power to control his movement, and it may benefit him to waive for the ED rather than, say, get bought out.
- Feanor

I wonder if Boychuk would waive for the good of the team. His contract could keep him in NY anyway

Don't make a trade unless you get fair value. Undersell and other GMs will know it and try to exploit it in the future. A 55 point winger in his prime is worth more than a 20 year old prospect yet to turn pro. I don't think adding a mid 1st or something is actually unfair or a hard bargain.
- Mononoke

What benefits the Flyers the most? Getting someone like Barzal or waiting 2 years to try and do it? I just think they benefit the most from getting Barzal than the first rounder might be worth. Not that it matters much because if they can get a pick they should. Didn't think there was a point to asking would you trade Schenn for Barzal and a 1st

My apologies for using a hypothetical, but if they did see Barzal as a future top line center...Schenn is fair value