Too small, too old. The kid will never amount to anything in the NHL. Another wasted pick by Stan.
- DarthKane

Lol.

Also


Eklund has Vanek connected to the Blackhawks.

Great info Rico.......kudos on the research fine sir.
- ILGolfer

Golf, it took 10-15 minutes. Left Wing Lock, at the top click line combos. They give last game, last 3 games and last 10 games. http://www.leftwinglock.com/starting-goalies/

Problem is Holland is too in love with his own players and never wants to part with them. He would ask for a ransom for either Tatar or Nyquist, regardless if the team is in a down year or if those players are having down seasons, which they both are
- hawkeytalkman

That's also a possibility. I'd like to say I'm optimistic but Duchene seems like a crazy deal to pull off. Especially if teams are offering up top 3 defenseman to get him.

I understand what you are saying, but most of the serious contenders that you listed are deeper than the hawks outside the top 6. And if a top 6 winger isn't acquired so panik and Hartman can strengthen the bottom six, this is a one round, maybe two round team.
- TheMainElement

What concerns me most is the amount of rookies, no matter how good they are playing come playoff time. As Hawk fans should know the playoffs are totally different animal, a true meat grinder where coaches have the time to adjust and exploit weakness and of course the game is called differently.

As much as Hartman, Kero, Rasmussen, Hino, Schmaltz and even Kempny have had inconsistent success and all have improved since Day 1, some more than others, going with 4-5-6 rookies in the playoffs is asking/hoping for what's probably unrealistic results.

I'm all for a 2LW but if the cost is Schmaltz and Forsling for a Vanek I say go another direction. Instead look for a solid 2 way 45-50 point vet who can slot on line 3. Or a legit #6 Dman for insurance.

If Toews is stuck with a Panik or Hartman along with Hossa shore up the 3rd and 4th lines to add responsible/predictable playoff vet experience and reduce the amount of rookies. If Schmaltz, Kero, Rasmussen, Hino, Kempny force Q to play them all the better but counting on that many rookies is a concern IMO.

I'm all for a 2LW but if the cost is unreasonable there is more than one way to skin a cat, especially in the context that the death grip the cap has on most every legit contender leaves everyone with holes.

Guys, it isn't all about Toews needing a LW but the Hawks needing someone to play LW minutes effectively. The Hawks weakest forward position is LW and they only have 1 guy on LW who is a legit top 6 guy. That is the point. Doesn't matter who they play with or which line, the Hawks need depth (with skill) at that position. Two/Three/Four years back the Hawks had more depth along the LW. When they won the cup in 2015, they had Saad on line 1. Versteeg/Bickell playing on line 2. Sharp on line 3. etc..

Compare that to the LW group lately....

Schmaltz/Panarin/Rasmussen/Hartman....Nothing against them, but this group doesn't have the experience. Panarin is kinda a vet, but still only his second NHL season. Rasmussen in his first Full season, after playing about half the year on the 4th line last year. Hartman is an NHL rookie, but a fairly "ready" one at least. Schmaltz is still a bit too green, but the potential is there. The Hawks can use some depth/experience and skill on the LW side.
- breadbag

Thing is Bread when you compare any Hawk team to another Hawk team each single year that goes by the cap has knee capped them each and every year weakening them from year to year. In that context you can't compare the 15 team to the 13 team to the 10 team and won't be able to compare next year's team to this years.

You make good points, the Hawks need some experience, period. Preferably at LW but anywhere will do.

What concerns me most is the amount of rookies, no matter how good they are playing come playoff time. As Hawk fans should know the playoffs are totally different animal, a true meat grinder where coaches have the time to adjust and exploit weakness and of course the game is called differently.

As much as Hartman, Kero, Rasmussen, Hino, Schmaltz and even Kempny have had inconsistent success and all have improved since Day 1, some more than others, going with 4-5-6 rookies in the playoffs is asking/hoping for what's probably unrealistic results.

I'm all for a 2LW but if the cost is Schmaltz and Forsling for a Vanek I say go another direction. Instead look for a solid 2 way 45-50 point vet who can slot on line 3. Or a legit #6 Dman for insurance.

If Toews is stuck with a Panik or Hartman along with Hossa shore up the 3rd and 4th lines to add responsible/predictable playoff vet experience and reduce the amount of rookies. If Schmaltz, Kero, Rasmussen, Hino, Kempny force Q to play them all the better but counting on that many rookies is a concern IMO.

I'm all for a 2LW but if the cost is unreasonable there is more than one way to skin a cat, especially in the context that the death grip the cap has on most every legit contender leaves everyone with holes.
- Mr Ricochet

The reason I'm so skeptical about Vanek is his history of not showing up. Otherwise he is having a respectable season in Detroit.

Good point about the rookies. The guys who deserve to play in the playoffs, on the lower lines, are Moose, Hartman, Kero. Too many, like you said can produce something unrealistic.

While your point is fair, you probably could have not mentioned the Penguins or Caps. They have the most complete top 6/9 in the league and probably do have 4 players who match fairly well against the Hawks big 4 (especially the Pens). Who is Lewis you mention for the Caps, btw?

And for the Wild, I'm not sure why you're mentioning Zucker and Niederreiter as if they're issues - both are legit top 6 players. I'd love Zucker on the Hawks, he'd be 3rd on the Hawks in terms of points and PPG (Niederreiter would be 4th but Zucker is more well rounded + LW). Not Kane/Panarin levels of production, but damn good and they're only 24/25 so entering prime. Tuch is understandable to mention since he a young rookie.

Agree with the other points, though I too think if they can get at least a middle 6 LW, that would be ideal so they can slot Schmaltz and/or Panik down.
- L_B_R

I meant Williams in the Caps' top 6........

And as for MN last I knew Coyle and his 38 points were top 6. Agree on Zucker and Nederrieter too. Add Granlund is playing out of his mind and the addition of Staal as a 1C has bumped Koivu down to 2C and the domino effect has made this probably the most balanced deep team in the league, or in the conversation.

When I was getting down on the Super Bowl I looked to see what the odds were for the Cup. The favs are Caps +600, Hawks, +700 and the Pens and Wild +800. So MN is is a real player.

The reason I'm so skeptical about Vanek is his history of not showing up. Otherwise he is having a respectable season in Detroit.

Good point about the rookies. The guys who deserve to play in the playoffs, on the lower lines, are Moose, Hartman, Kero. Too many, like you said can produce something unrealistic.
- 93Joe

Vanek is so damn lazy, can be invisible, ain't gonna backcheck much, ain't gonna win many puck battles or even engage, but he's skilled. I just can't feel good about this player.

Agreed, today I think Kero (who I never ever thought had this kind of game, missed on him x 1,000), Moose and Hartman dress for Game 1 of the playoffs. And that's still THREE rookies!! .........Think Moose had 5 or so games too many to be considered a true rookie not counting your #6 Dman.

Right, it can be! I just think there is a line between being a good player and being a "special" type of talent. He is a good prospect, but like Saad, probably not one of those special talents. Could become a really solid player in time, but too early to tell.
- breadbag

Was Tom Brady categorized a special talent except everybody forgot to draft him until the 6th round? He developed as a result of his work ethic and being determined as hell, by being around outstanding coaching and other great players.

Once the draft was over nobody cares whether Debrincat was drafted 1st overall or last in the 7th round. He's the guy who will make it or not from here forward. Luckily for him he's headed to a team that values skill first. He could have been very unlucky and wound up being picked by a team that values blocked shots and skating backwards in the neutral zone on his way back to his own zone - you know teams with coaches like Jacques Lemaire, Guy Boucher, Barry Trotz and a few others.

Thing is Bread when you compare any Hawk team to another Hawk team each single year that goes by the cap has knee capped them each and every year weakening them from year to year. In that context you can't compare the 15 team to the 13 team to the 10 team and won't be able to compare next year's team to this years.

You make good points, the Hawks need some experience, period. Preferably at LW but anywhere will do.
- Mr Ricochet

I wouldn't disagree with that in general. That is the thing right now, experience. Panarin is the only guy on LW with more than 100 NHL games to his credit. 1,2 or 3 years down the road, maybe the current group can be just as good as the LW the Hawks used to have. They probably have comparable talent.

The Hawks have experienced guys like Kane/Hossa on RW and down the middle you have Toews/AA/Kruger, but LW needs the most help.

Was Tom Brady categorized a special talent except everybody forgot to draft him until the 6th round? He developed as a result of his work ethic and being determined as hell, by being around outstanding coaching and other great players.

Once the draft was over nobody cares whether Debrincat was drafted 1st overall or last in the 7th round. He's the guy who will make it or not from here forward. Luckily for him he's headed to a team that values skill first. He could have been very unlucky and wound up being picked by a team that values blocked shots and skating backwards in the neutral zone on his way back to his own zone - you know teams with coaches like Jacques Lemaire, Guy Boucher, Barry Trotz and a few others.
- RickJ

Well, the question was is he dominating right now in the OHL because there is something special about him. I just don't think he has shown that there is at this point. I'm not saying he won't make something of himself in the NHL, but I don't think he is one of those rare talents. Just my opinion and it could be wrong, but I think he is gonna have to keep working his butt off and prove himself at the pro level. When he was playing with other prospects and during the preseason, he wasn't bad or anything, but I can't say that he looked like he was more than just another good prospect. I hope he has a bright future, but time will tell. Honestly, I don't want everyone to get on the hype train at this point.

Well, the question was is he dominating right now in the OHL because there is something special about him. I just don't think he has shown that there is at this point. I'm not saying he won't make something of himself in the NHL, but I don't think he is one of those rare talents. Just my opinion and it could be wrong, but I think he is gonna have to keep working his butt off and prove himself at the pro level. When he was playing with other prospects and during the preseason, he wasn't bad or anything, but I can't say that he looked like he was more than just another good prospect. I hope he has a bright future, but time will tell. Honestly, I don't want everyone to get on the hype train at this point.
- breadbag

My theory is a good big man is always, always better than a good small man.

And then there are guys like Marty St.Louis, Danny Briere, Zuccarello, Pocket Rocket Richard, Patrick Kane, Doug Gilmour and even Duncan Keith. Anybody project him at 18 or 19 to win 2 Norris trophies, 3 Cups, 2 Olympics?

If he is NHL calibre, the Hawks will find a role for him. If he isn't, he will bounce around the league for awhile and be gone to play on the big ice in Europe for a few years.

You forgot the most important one...


- fattybeef

I'll give it to the pitching staff and Paulie for that GM 2 GS-- they certainly went on a great run-- but not much drama--

What concerns me most is the amount of rookies, no matter how good they are playing come playoff time. As Hawk fans should know the playoffs are totally different animal, a true meat grinder where coaches have the time to adjust and exploit weakness and of course the game is called differently.

As much as Hartman, Kero, Rasmussen, Hino, Schmaltz and even Kempny have had inconsistent success and all have improved since Day 1, some more than others, going with 4-5-6 rookies in the playoffs is asking/hoping for what's probably unrealistic results.

I'm all for a 2LW but if the cost is Schmaltz and Forsling for a Vanek I say go another direction. Instead look for a solid 2 way 45-50 point vet who can slot on line 3. Or a legit #6 Dman for insurance.

If Toews is stuck with a Panik or Hartman along with Hossa shore up the 3rd and 4th lines to add responsible/predictable playoff vet experience and reduce the amount of rookies. If Schmaltz, Kero, Rasmussen, Hino, Kempny force Q to play them all the better but counting on that many rookies is a concern IMO.

I'm all for a 2LW but if the cost is unreasonable there is more than one way to skin a cat, especially in the context that the death grip the cap has on most every legit contender leaves everyone with holes.
- Mr Ricochet

is this actually being suggested? i wouldn't give up either straight up for rental stiff like vanek...c'mon

is this actually being suggested? i wouldn't give up either straight up for rental stiff like vanek...c'mon
- bogiedoc

Hartman, Schmaltz and Forsling are not worth a rental or even a decent player with another year left on his deal. I truly get the "all in" mentality and I don't necessarily disagree. But at some point you need to let the young guns develop and replenish the ranks. I know the core is getting older, but that's all the more reason to start injecting youth into the lineup.

Golf, it took 10-15 minutes. Left Wing Lock, at the top click line combos. They give last game, last 3 games and last 10 games. http://www.leftwinglock.com/starting-goalies/
- Mr Ricochet

Thanks fine sir.....

Thing is Bread when you compare any Hawk team to another Hawk team each single year that goes by the cap has knee capped them each and every year weakening them from year to year. In that context you can't compare the 15 team to the 13 team to the 10 team and won't be able to compare next year's team to this years.

You make good points, the Hawks need some experience, period. Preferably at LW but anywhere will do.
- Mr Ricochet

as far as experience--- anyone hear what Lada and Lundberg are doing at Rockford--- I thought that they were brought in as veteran depth--

or are they not in the NHL because of salary cap issues or talent-- or both?

Lol.

Also


Eklund has Vanek connected to the Blackhawks.
- mrpaulish

If the price is reasonable, and by reasonable I mean very VERY low, then I say why not?!

If the price is reasonable, and by reasonable I mean very VERY low, then I say why not?!
- DarthKane

YEA .

At this point in this franchise history maybe its best to get a mid range rental like Vanek. Hold onto Frosling, DeB , Hartman, Kero , ect and see how they develop.

We'll see I guess. 21 days or so till the deadline.

The likelihood of DeBrincat even being available as a call up is in question as Erie is set for a very long run towards the Memorial Cup, pending a major upset.
- hpk90

Which is precisely why I wrote:

"The, "if only he played left wing" comment wasn't referring to there being any chance of Alex filling the 1LW hole this season. Just a more tongue-in-cheek comment on the dearth of talented true left wingers on the roster in general.
- 4_in_7"

I think it's possible to acknowledge a prospect's remarkable, likely record-tying production in the OHL without believing hook, line and sinker that he'll be a stud in the NHL.

It's worth getting excited about what he might become, but until he does there's no point in proclaiming him one thing or another.

As far as his age, he just turned 19 about a month and a half ago. Of the 9 other players that make up the top 10 scorers in the OHL, he's 1-6 months older than 6 of them, 8 months older than 1, a year and 2 months older than 1 (Owen Tippett is the youngest player on this list) and a year and 3 months younger than 1 (Bobby MacIntyre who turned 20 last September).

So while he's the 2nd oldest player amongst the OHL top ten scorers, the majority of the guys he's older than is by a fairly negligible amount. Age likely doesn't factor much into the reason he's doing so well. That and the fact that he scored 50 goals/100 points in his 16-17 year and 17-18 year.

Scoring is so much higher in a lot of these Canadian junior leagues than NCAA or USHL. I asked a question about why that is a few weeks back but never really got an answer.

Anybody have any insight on that? Is it the style of play? The level of offensive talent vs. defensive talent? Almost all of the Hawks prospects in Canadian juniors are scoring at about a point per game pace, but that's nothing special in those leagues.

as far as experience--- anyone hear what Lada and Lundberg are doing at Rockford--- I thought that they were brought in as veteran depth--

or are they not in the NHL because of salary cap issues or talent-- or both?
- jb3333

In 5 games with Rockford, Latta has no goals, 3 assists and... 16 penalty minutes!

Lundberg seems to be pretty much what JJ described him as, a responsible grinder. In 45 games, he's scored 6 goals with 10 helpers and is +1, which makes him one of only two players with meaningful minutes who isn't a minus in the +/- category.

+/- is a rather meaningless stat most of the time, but in context can give a bit of a picture of a guy's sense of defensive responsibility. Everyone else on the roster is between -4 and -20 with 9 players in double digits.

Don't know how illuminating those numbers are but there you have it...

Claude Julien fired today.

Sorry, a bit off topic but I just read that if the LV Golden Knights pay their $500M expansion fee before 3/1 that they can make trades. People are saying that teams might trade them draft picks for promises they don't take one of their players in the expansions draft. How's that trade going to be listed as a transaction? LV gets CHI 4th rd pick, CHI gets promise not to take Hartman in expansion draft. Can there really be a deal like that?

Which is precisely why I wrote:

"The, "if only he played left wing" comment wasn't referring to there being any chance of Alex filling the 1LW hole this season. Just a more tongue-in-cheek comment on the dearth of talented true left wingers on the roster in general.
- 4_in_7"
- 4_in_7

Gotcha. I just figured there were probably a few people out there who were thinking DeBrincat might be coming to the rescue when his junior season ends...