The Flyers are the ONLY team in the league with two $8 mil plus forwards who havent won the cup. Doesn't sound like the going rate to me.
- Dkos

That makes zero sense.

The Flyers are the ONLY team in the league with two $8 mil plus forwards who havent won the cup. Doesn't sound like the going rate to me.
- Dkos

They were certainly worth that when they signed those contracts. The problem is that the team wasn't good enough to compete during the years when they were worth that money. I would argue that Jake is still worth that much, but he'll probably begin to fall off in a year or two.

That makes zero sense.
- MJL

You said it was market value. What other team is giving two forwards, of similar caliber, those kind of contracts? I'm not seeing it.

You said it was market value. What other team is giving two forwards, of similar caliber, those kind of contracts? I'm not seeing it.
- Dkos

How many players each team has making a certain amount of money, is not a factor when a team is negotiating a individual contract with a individual player.

There are numerous teams who have given similar caliber players those kind of contracts. Not sure how you're not seeing it.

Give me trade ideas involving our 1st this year.

They were certainly worth that when they signed those contracts. The problem is that the team wasn't good enough to compete during the years when they were worth that money. I would argue that Jake is still worth that much, but he'll probably begin to fall off in a year or two.
- PhillySportsGuy

I didnt think they were good contracts at the time or especially now and it doesnt seem like the rest of the league thinks a good idea to invest that kind of money and term into two forwards unless they are Crosby/Malkin or Toews/Kane

Maybe they should stop trying to balance it and just commit to building for the future
- PhillySportsGuy

Hard to expect an NHL coach not to coach to win. The solution would be to trade 3 or 4 vets on expiring contracts and force him to play the kids. Either way though, he's going to want them to play the style that he feels is most conducive to winning

How many players each team has making a certain amount of money, is not a factor when a team is negotiating a individual contract with a individual player.

There are numerous teams who have given similar caliber players those kind of contracts. Not sure how you're not seeing it.
- MJL

Really don't agree with your first statement. How can you not consider what you are paying other players on your team when there's a cap on salaries?

Maybe you and I value Giroux and Voracek differently? Do you think these guys are irreplaceable? How long have you been watching pro sports? There's always another guy

They were certainly worth that when they signed those contracts. The problem is that the team wasn't good enough to compete during the years when they were worth that money. I would argue that Jake is still worth that much, but he'll probably begin to fall off in a year or two.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think one of the best possible ways to save G's game is to get a real 2nd line Centre. Can or will Hextall make a deal? I just don't see it. I wish he would.

I didnt think they were good contracts at the time or especially now and it doesnt seem like the rest of the league thinks a good idea to invest that kind of money and term into two forwards unless they are Crosby/Malkin or Toews/Kane
- Dkos

What is missing in your formula there is not many teams have 2 players of that caliber in the league. Also have to consider when top players on some teams signed players to contracts. There are still players who signed front loaded deals with low years on the back end, that kept the cap hit lower. Some of those teams might possibly face recapture penalties.

What is missing in your formula there is not many teams have 2 players of that caliber in the league. Also have to consider when top players on some teams signed players to contracts. There are still players who signed front loaded deals with low years on the back end, that kept the cap hit lower. Some of those teams might possibly face recapture penalties.
- MJL

Are you saying Giroux and Voracek are in the top 10 forwards in the league?

Really don't agree with your first statement. How can you not consider what you are paying other players on your team when there's a cap on salaries?

Maybe you and I value Giroux and Voracek differently? Do you think these guys are irreplaceable? How long have you been watching pro sports? There's always another guy
- Dkos

Unless a top player in the league is willing to take significantly less to re-sign, they have the leverage on a team, and can name their price. Most teams will then look to cut salary elsewhere to make it fit into their cap structure. That player has the leverage to say either pay me what I'm worth comparable to similar players (market value) or I walk.

You have to look at where the player was at when he was signed. Giroux's new deal kicked in after the 13-14 season, when he scored 86 points and 93 points the season before. Tell me how they could've gotten another guy equal to Giroux at that time? Really the question of how long has someone been watching pro sports, is one you should answer based on your statements.

Are you saying Giroux and Voracek are in the top 10 forwards in the league?
- Dkos

When they signed their contracts, absolutely.

Unless a top player in the league is willing to take significantly less to re-sign, they have the leverage on a team, and can name their price. Most teams will then look to cut salary elsewhere to make it fit into their cap structure. That player has the leverage to say either pay me what I'm worth comparable to similar players (market value) or I walk.

You have to look at where the player was at when he was signed. Giroux's new deal kicked in after the 13-14 season, when he scored 86 points and 93 points the season before. Tell me how they could've gotten another guy equal to Giroux at that time? Really the question of how long has someone been watching pro sports, is on you should answer based on your statements.
- MJL

you also have to look at where your team is at when signing a player to those terms. We werent close to winning a cup when Giroux was signed and certainly not when Voracek was signed. Why invest that kind of money and term when you aren't even close?

I didnt think they were good contracts at the time or especially now and it doesnt seem like the rest of the league thinks a good idea to invest that kind of money and term into two forwards unless they are Crosby/Malkin or Toews/Kane
- Dkos

I was fine with the Giroux deal. He means a lot to the franchise off the ice. There's more that goes into signing a guy like him than strictly on ice production over those 8 years.

I was probably the only one who proposed the idea of trading Voracek before re-signing him. His deal was fair market value at the time, but that time was when he came off his career year. In fairness, he's still producing at a high level and I'd guess that he ages pretty well.

you also have to look at where your team is at when signing a player to those terms. We werent close to winning a cup when Giroux was signed and certainly not when Voracek was signed. Why invest that kind of money and term when you aren't even close?
- Dkos

Both players were top players in the league at the time, and both were about 25 years old.

Hard to expect an NHL coach not to coach to win. The solution would be to trade 3 or 4 vets on expiring contracts and force him to play the kids. Either way though, he's going to want them to play the style that he feels is most conducive to winning
- BiggE

If the GM is more focused on development, then he could just tell the coach to focus on development of young players instead of making the playoffs as an 8 seed.

If the GM is more focused on development, then he could just tell the coach to focus on development of young players instead of making the playoffs as an 8 seed.
- PhillySportsGuy

Flyers don't operate that way. Very few GM's are going to tell their coach not to coach to win.

I think one of the best possible ways to save G's game is to get a real 2nd line Centre. Can or will Hextall make a deal? I just don't see it. I wish he would.
- 3flyerkids

Giroux is more of a 2nd line center/PP specialist at this point. What the Flyers need is a top line center.

Flyers don't operate that way. Very few GM's are going to tell their coach not to coach to win.
- MJL

He can coach to win. It just shouldn't be his top priority.

I'd rather the team just call up the young players in the AHL. If they lose, they lose. At least they'd be fun to watch and would probably develop faster.

Giroux is more of a 2nd line center/PP specialist at this point. What the Flyers need is a top line center.
- PhillySportsGuy

I agree, and like another poster said earlier, "there's always another guy"! No problem for the Flyers to get a top line center.

He can coach to win. It just shouldn't be his top priority.

I'd rather the team just call up the young players in the AHL. If they lose, they lose. At least they'd be fun to watch and would probably develop faster.
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes it should be his top priority. That's what he is hired to do. Calling up players and changing the context of the roster is the GM's decision. You're conflating two different things. Coaching to win, and developing young players are often intertwined.

I agree, and like another poster said earlier, "there's always another guy"! No problem for the Flyers to get a top line center.
- MJL

It is a problem and they're nearly impossible to get unless you draft one. I'm not going to hold my hands on my ears and pretend it's not a huge problem though.

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN 2m2 minutes ago
Ghost and Konecny still on ice which means they remain scratched for StL
- PhillySportsGuy

It's just sad. It makes sense now though. They didn't know how to play his Neanderthal hockey. Too much energy and creativity damnit.

He can coach to win. It just shouldn't be his top priority.

I'd rather the team just call up the young players in the AHL. If they lose, they lose. At least they'd be fun to watch and would probably develop faster.
- PhillySportsGuy

Winning is the top priority in hockey. Your a process guy as I am in basketball. The sports are different. In the NBA if you don't have two stars tank until you get another. Hockey is much more of a team game. Part of developing young talent and a culture to a team, is bringing them into a winning environment.