Ok, PSG. I agree with some of your points about contract management, but I do think you're being a bit hindsight-y too.

Voracek is still flirting with top 10 in scoring. He's on pace for 73 points. Yes, his value would have stayed pretty stagnant, but last year was just an epic implosion for many reasons you well know. It was not expected, and it was an anomaly. He's back to being an elite star. I think he'll age well and be a key contributor for when we contend. He doesn't worry me. He's our best player.

Giroux.....I mean he was a top 10 player in the NHL on his last deal (I get your bridge deal complaint). He's fallen off way quicker than we would've thought. But this year worries me b/c his metrics are poor. He always used to be strong there, even with some down 5v5 scoring years. His value will still hold as the best PP guy in the league. I do think his 5v5 scoring is TOO bad right now. It does give me comfort (in a weird way) that the entire team can't score and most everyone has regressed. It's not like we were a strong 5v5 team to begin with. But team wide problems maybe indicate a silver lining for Giroux, that he can still score at 2C levels like last year. It's perhaps deeper than individual play. Either way, he'll still get 60+ annually for years to come, but he probably won't be THE guy.

Simmonds......ugh. No one wants to see him go, and it's not impossible to see him still be productive on his next deal as one of the core vets. But if there's a package to be had, a truly transcendental package to carry us in contention, he's the guy to get it. I think you're being a bit doom and gloom though with him. His value should hold. Hell, he's been getting better and more versatile every year perhaps. We're not there yet where I'd make such a momentous decision. Plus it's not like plenty of teams aren't contending with a few 30+ vets.

You know how much I advocated trading Schenn last year, or even Morin+ for a top 10 pick. It's still where I'd start. If you can't draft top 10, trade for or up to draft top 10 for a guy you target. They have a very deep prospect pool right now, especially on the backend. It's not unlikely that that trade you're talking about could be a d man in a few years.
- Mononoke

Giroux with jagr - 93 points
lockout happens
Giroux hurts his neck and shoulder in Europe
48 points in shortened season
86 points
73 points
67 points

His declining production is freaking alarming but some of it should be on the coaching staff and the GMs.

He lost Jagr, which I think was terrible for this team.
He lost Hartnell.

He got Raffl.

Trading Giroux to upgrade the lower lines and 3rd pairing on defense is a great idea. Most teams will trade a top player to do that. Solid strategy.
- MJL

No you're right. We should resign Randy Jones, a legit NHL defenceman?

Right? RIGHT?

Get lost fool.

I find it interesting that Schenn has more goals and points than Hartnell does. Is Schenn not producing?
- MJL

26/30 of Hartnell's points are 5v5. Given the Flyers cannot score 5v5 and are chock full of PP specialists and I am of the belief that good as he is at it, Schenn's PP role and points are the most easily replaceable (just as Hartnell's was before because he was the 5th most important player on it), yes, I'd rather that style production, albeit not from a different younger source. I think it'd be a net gain.

Yes. I like you.
- FlyersNapTime

Please be an woman (preferably familiar with at least 3 wrestling terms, 2 real life names of wrestlers and into bashing Coots) and a not a dude!

Please be an woman and a not a dude!
- opeth_pa

I'm somewhere in the middle.

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves here. I'm merely proposing who needs to be moved and why. Replacing players is always easier than we as fans make it out to be.

We said the same crap with Richards, Carter, Forsberg, Pronger, Hartnell etc etc.
- FlyersNapTime

I agree, replacing those players was easy. The team is much better now than in 2010.

Please be an woman (preferably familiar with at least 3 wrestling terms, 2 real life names of wrestlers and into bashing Coots) and a not a dude!
- opeth_pa

Please define "bashing coots" for me.

I may have read this wrong.

I'm somewhere in the middle.
- FlyersNapTime

With something in the middle...

With something in the middle...
- dragonoffrost

- FlyersNapTime

All in good fun

26/30 of Hartnell's points are 5v5. Given the Flyers cannot score 5v5 and are chock full of PP specialists and I am of the belief that good as he is at it, Schenn's PP role and points are the most easily replaceable (just as Hartnell's was before because he was the 5th most important player on it), yes, I'd rather that style production, albeit not from a different younger source. I think it'd be a net gain.
- Mononoke

No effects from the team? I would argue that Hartnell's ES point totals would suffer greatly playing on this team

No effects from the team? I would argue that Hartnell's ES point totals would suffer greatly playing on this team
- MJL

He'd fit right in the way some of these guys stay on their feet.

Giroux with jagr - 93 points
lockout happens
Giroux hurts his neck and shoulder in Europe
48 points in shortened season
86 points
73 points
67 points

His declining production is freaking alarming but some of it should be on the coaching staff and the GMs.

He lost Jagr, which I think was terrible for this team.
He lost Hartnell.

He got Raffl.
- FlyersNapTime

Maybe he has Eric Staal disease.

Ok, PSG. I agree with some of your points about contract management, but I do think you're being a bit hindsight-y too.

Voracek is still flirting with top 10 in scoring. He's on pace for 73 points. Yes, his value would have stayed pretty stagnant, but last year was just an epic implosion for many reasons you well know. It was not expected, and it was an anomaly. He's back to being an elite star. I think he'll age well and be a key contributor for when we contend. He doesn't worry me. He's our best player.

Giroux.....I mean he was a top 10 player in the NHL on his last deal (I get your bridge deal complaint). He's fallen off way quicker than we would've thought. But this year worries me b/c his metrics are poor. He always used to be strong there, even with some down 5v5 scoring years. His value will still hold as the best PP guy in the league. I do think his 5v5 scoring is TOO bad right now. It does give me comfort (in a weird way) that the entire team can't score and most everyone has regressed. It's not like we were a strong 5v5 team to begin with. But team wide problems maybe indicate a silver lining for Giroux, that he can still score at 2C levels like last year. It's perhaps deeper than individual play. Either way, he'll still get 60+ annually for years to come, but he probably won't be THE guy.

Simmonds......ugh. No one wants to see him go, and it's not impossible to see him still be productive on his next deal as one of the core vets. But if there's a package to be had, a truly transcendental package to carry us in contention, he's the guy to get it. I think you're being a bit doom and gloom though with him. His value should hold. Hell, he's been getting better and more versatile every year perhaps. We're not there yet where I'd make such a momentous decision. Plus it's not like plenty of teams aren't contending with a few 30+ vets.

You know how much I advocated trading Schenn last year, or even Morin+ for a top 10 pick. It's still where I'd start. If you can't draft top 10, trade for or up to draft top 10 for a guy you target. They have a very deep prospect pool right now, especially on the backend. It's not unlikely that that trade you're talking about could be a d man in a few years.
- Mononoke

I am being a bit hindsighty with certain guys and most of the questionable ones aren't on Hexy. I just wish there was a better cap guy in the organization who could advise them on risk management and ways to save money. Voracek was likely to never have another 80 point season. Schenn may get close to 59 points, but his real value is much lower. Hartnell was certainly not going to top 37 goals again. Smart teams understand regression and take advantage of it. To Hexy's credit, he did lock in guys like Gudas and Raffl at a great rate.

I never said the Flyers shouldn't have re-signed these guys, I just thought they could have taken an alternative route with some of them to get them for less or collect picks/prospects instead.

Ultimately, this team needs THE guy as you mentioned. THE guy is not available in free agency and is rarely available through trade. In most circumstances you have to draft him and, in most of those circumstances, you need to be near the top of the draft to get him.

I'm not saying the Flyers can't find another Giroux, but think about what happened during that draft. Giroux was a fall back plan. He was not their first choice. Maybe that type of luck will happen again, but I'd rather have more options in finding THE guy than simply picking in the middle of the first round each year.

At some point, they need to make a move and take a chance.

Maybe he has Eric Staal disease.
- BINGO!

A trip to Minnesota could cure it?

Get lost fool.
- FlyersNapTime

26/30 of Hartnell's points are 5v5. Given the Flyers cannot score 5v5 and are chock full of PP specialists and I am of the belief that good as he is at it, Schenn's PP role and points are the most easily replaceable (just as Hartnell's was before because he was the 5th most important player on it), yes, I'd rather that style production, albeit not from a different younger source. I think it'd be a net gain.
- Mononoke

Can you imagine if Hartnell was still here and playing on the top PP unit? People would be crushing Schenn.

A trip to Minnesota could cure it?
- dragonoffrost

Just a removal from the amount of pressure he's under to carry the team.

Just a removal from the amount of pressure he's under to carry the team.
- BINGO!

NY was supposed to do that. It didn't work.

All in good fun
- dragonoffrost

Aye... no worries man.. It was funny

Maybe he has Eric Staal disease.
- BINGO!

I think more accurately it is Mike Richards disease.

As in, a smallish guy who is built like a 15 year old boy having his body beaten up constantly by men who outweigh him by 30-40 lbs on average.

That takes a toll due to simple physics.

I think more accurately it is Mike Richards disease.

As in, a smallish guy who is built like a 15 year old boy having his body beaten up constantly by men who outweigh him by 30-40 lbs on average.

That takes a toll due to simple physics.
- MBFlyerfan

So G better avoid the border.

I think more accurately it is Mike Richards disease.

As in, a smallish guy who is built like a 15 year old boy having his body beaten up constantly by men who outweigh him by 30-40 lbs on average.

That takes a toll due to simple physics.
- MBFlyerfan

as someone who is 5'11" and 180lbs.. I hate you

But solid point

NY was supposed to do that. It didn't work.
- dragonoffrost

New York made him play 3C with Viktor Stalberg, Oscar Lindberg and Jesper Fast.

New York made him play 3C with Viktor Stalberg, Oscar Lindberg and Jesper Fast.
- BINGO!

Those guys aren't that bad if you ask Ranger fans