For me, Giroux's lack of effectiveness was noticeable since the World Cup. He just didn't look in the same realm as the other top players. Late on plays and weak on puck battles. He's shown flashes of greatness but he's coming far too reliant on his vision, passing and shooting. He's standing still and pulling up instead of driving play like he used to.

He's not the first professional athlete to go through a long term funk and come back from it so I'm not losing faith but he needs some sort of reset if this continues.

The entire climate has changed, which makes drafting even more important. Also, development leagues have improved which allows for better depth in drafts.
- YuenglingJagr

To me, if you're going to tank, you need to luck out that the "generational talent" type of player is there. Tanking for Crosby/McDavid/Stamkos (which didn't work out for NYR or Buf) is one thing. Tanking for a Yakupov/RNH type isn't worth it.

Schenn has a upset tummy and needs some growacet.

MDZ is at the doctor getting his prescription for growacet.

Schenn has a upset tummy and needs some growacet.

MDZ is at the doctor getting his prescription for growacet.
- dragonoffrost

G is invisible when not on the power play. I'm guessing it must be the system requirement, but at one point I recall Jake behind the net with possession trying to move the puck looking for someone to pass it to....and G was out at the blueline in the middle with both defensemen also out at the blueline. No aggressiveness whatsoever.

Coots also not aggressive. Is it against Hacks gameplan for centers to go to the net?

Jake....see paragraph 1 and 2.

Last night was an embarrassment.
- MBFlyerfan

Trying actually paying to sit through that crap show.

You don't think the climate has changed a little? Look at who is available as a UFA every year... it's not very pretty.
- BINGO!

I'm not saying UFA is the best option but it still is one in rare circumstances.

For example: Stamkos was near available last season. It's becoming more and more likely Tavares will be available next season.

To me, if you're going to tank, you need to luck out that the "generational talent" type of player is there. Tanking for Crosby/McDavid/Stamkos (which didn't work out for NYR or Buf) is one thing. Tanking for a Yakupov/RNH type isn't worth it.
- jmatchett383

It's not so much that, you just have to be consistently in the bottom for a few years.

Draft picks are like lotto tickets. The more you have, the better your odds of coming away with a player.

Sure you can get lucky the other way too, but why not play the odds if you can?

Trying actually paying to sit through that crap show.
- section32

Been there done that a few times this year. Also been there done that with a few excellent games. This team is Jeckyl and Hyde.

I'm not saying UFA is the best option but it still is one in rare circumstances.

For example: Stamkos was near available last season. It's becoming more and more likely Tavares will be available next season.
- Baxter27

Also with the uncertainty of where they will even play I think that makes him more available.

So much of drafting is luck. Hoping to land one of the top 10 forwards in hockey without a top 10 pick is so incredibly difficult. It's like finding a needle in a haystack.
- PhillySportsGuy

and drafting top 5 doesn't always land you an elite player or even a good player.

I'm not saying UFA is the best option but it still is one in rare circumstances.

For example: Stamkos was near available last season. It's becoming more and more likely Tavares will be available next season.
- Baxter27

It's possible. But then you get into a bidding war and, usually, end up overpaying.

Unless you're the Blackhawks who throw themselves into cap hell without a bidding war.

👀
- Crimsoninja

Woah you need to calm down

and drafting top 5 doesn't always land you an elite player or even a good player.
- nastyflyergirl

Luke Schenn is the next Adam Foote.

It's not so much that, you just have to be consistently in the bottom for a few years.

Draft picks are like lotto tickets. The more you have, the better your odds of coming away with a player.

Sure you can get lucky the other way too, but why not play the odds if you can?
- BINGO!

Personally, I'm not on board with watching a team that maxes out at 10 wins a season for 3-4 years. If you try your best and fail, that's hard to take, but understandable. Intentionally being bad for a handful of years in hopes that you'll get "that one" player, to me, is disgusting, especially in the NHL.

It's not so much that, you just have to be consistently in the bottom for a few years.

Draft picks are like lotto tickets. The more you have, the better your odds of coming away with a player.

Sure you can get lucky the other way too, but why not play the odds if you can?
- BINGO!

Sounds like you are speaking from experience

Been there done that a few times this year. Also been there done that with a few excellent games. This team is Jeckyl and Hyde.
- dragonoffrost

To me it's on G. No leadership. Richie got a lot of crap for being Mr frat boy partier, but at least he always played with an edge. This team mailed it in last night.

It's possible. But then you get into a bidding war and, usually, end up overpaying.

Unless you're the Blackhawks who throw themselves into cap hell without a bidding war.
- BINGO!

Agreed which is why it wouldn't be my preferred method. I'm fine with the Flyers current plan which is building a team through the draft, wherever those picks may be.

I don't agree with trading fan favourites and star players in the middle of their most productive seasons. By that logic, Richards would've been traded in 2007/2008 and Carter would've been traded in 2008/2009.

and drafting top 5 doesn't always land you an elite player or even a good player.
- nastyflyergirl

It increases your chances though. There is no method to rebuilding that is a guarantee. Some ways just increase your chances.

There are advantages to bottoming out as well. As Bingo! mentioned earlier, you can trade vets for more picks, sign guys to 1 year deals and flip them at the deadline, take on salary for more picks/prospects and take back a better return that may not transfer for a couple years.

Those types of things give you more bites at the apple.

Personally, I'm not on board with watching a team that maxes out at 10 wins a season for 3-4 years. If you try your best and fail, that's hard to take, but understandable. Intentionally being bad for a handful of years in hopes that you'll get "that one" player, to me, is disgusting, especially in the NHL.
- jmatchett383

No one is advocating the Flyers should become the worst team in the league.

and drafting top 5 doesn't always land you an elite player or even a good player.
- nastyflyergirl

No but getting Matthews or Laine would have been awesome last year Tkachuk was 6th but he's looking great

Before that
McDavid Eichel Strome Marner Hanifin all look amazing

Before that
Ekblad Reinhart Draisaitl Bennet would have been amazing

Before that
MacKinnon Barkov Drouin Jones Lindholm would have been great

getting a top 5 pick should be a top prioroity for this team now

It increases your chances though. There is no method to rebuilding that is a guarantee. Some ways just increase your chances.

There are advantages to bottoming out as well. As Bingo! mentioned earlier, you can trade vets for more picks, sign guys to 1 year deals and flip them at the deadline, take on salary for more picks/prospects and take back a better return that may not transfer for a couple years.

Those types of things give you more bites at the apple.
- PhillySportsGuy

I haven't backread, but is there some sort of suggestion that we ditch G/Simmonds/Voracek/et. all this season to hope we get worse than Colorado and Arizona to get a shot at Patrick and/or the Swiss kid? Because that sounds like a terrible idea.

I'd rather vote Hillary than watch this team collapse in the ash bin of history.

The longer you wait, the less value he has. He could get injured or begin to show the same regression Giroux has shown. Part of Simmonds' value is his contract. If you wait until 2018, all you'll get is a mid first rounder maybe. Move him now and you could get a Richards/Carter type deal.
- PhillySportsGuy

Why do you want to move Simmonds, the guy is doing everything asked of him and he is a heart and soul player. They guy I would be looking to move right now is Couturier. He is a 3rd line centre at best, a smuch as many would like to think he can play second line, he has shown not enough offensive touch to be there.

I haven't backread, but is there some sort of suggestion that we ditch G/Simmonds/Voracek/et. all this season to hope we get worse than Colorado and Arizona to get a shot at Patrick and/or the Swiss kid? Because that sounds like a terrible idea.
- jmatchett383

That's not what I've said

That's not what I've said
- PhillySportsGuy

I was legit. just asking. I would love to land a top-tier "elite" forward right now, but I would not firesale and intentionally lose for multiple seasons to do so.

Edit: MAYBE if you could guarantee a cup within 5 years I'd be okay with it. But without that guarantee, you basically end up back where you are, you just endured a few intentionally awful seasons in addition to it.