Approximately

1C = 16.25 mins
2C = 12 mins
3C = 20 mins
4C = 12.5 mins
Numbers get skewed with 2C on pp1 with 1C

In a game where the Flyers had 2 minutes of pp time and 6 minutes of pk time.

If you asked before the season I'd think we'd all be pleased. I think we all wanted G playing around that amount to save him some wear. Maybe a little more 2C time and less 4C but i'm ok with that division of time.
- dragonoffrost

Ill never understand this complaint, especially with Couturier. If he is out there to check the opposing teams best player at even strength....well, it doesn't take rocket science to figure this out.

Lol you can't female dog about fancy stats and "watching games" and then your analysis of which line was better comes down to reading a basic box score for 2 individual events.

The Schenn line scored by Brayden Schenn turning over a puck to a Toronto d man. The Toronto d man then flubbed it and it led to a breakaway. Great finish by Simmonds and a necessary result, but hardly a process based, team effort goal. They were hemmed in much of the rest of the game. The Couturier line neutered Toronto's top line all game and made them play defense all game, but was on the ice for a separate goal where Brandon Manning skated directly into Nick Cousins, who coughed it up, and led to a net mouth scramble goal. You can spin it any way you want, but Couturier has been on the ice for 3.1 goals per 60 minutes and Schenn for 1.95 this season, and then you talk about not caring about metrics (and they're not remotely close), but caring about which line scores "goals." A little consistency would be nice.
- Mononoke

An equally as important part of that winning formula is scoring at least 1 more goal then the opposing team. Schenn's line contributed that while the Coots line did not.

In the end though without what both lines did the Flyers dont win.
- opeth_pa

I agree, and I didn't say that none of the other lines contributed to the win. I just stated that in my opinion the Couturier line was easily the best line in the game.

Ill never understand this complaint, especially with Couturier. If he is out there to check the opposing teams best player at even strength....well, it doesn't take rocket science to figure this out.
- MBFlyerfan

The fact is there is no clearly divided top line or second line or third line really. Flyers divide their ice time in the top 9 pretty evenly, and it's usually not a large difference. It's never so simple. Most games Couturier-Giroux will be 1-2 in whichever order in ice time, and they'll be matched against the top 6 lines. On some less common occasions, situationally the Schenn line will be 2, and Giroux or Couturier 3. But the difference isn't usually large and labels are boring.

Schenn gets less ice time and scores less points than Couturier when Schenn is playing as the "2C".

Last night it was especially noticeable with the "2C" getting 11 ES minutes and the alleged 3C getting 16.
- Feanor

I sure hope Jordan Staal didn't cry this much when as he played 3rd fiddle to Crosby and Malkin as a former high draft pick. The great checking centers play a lot of ice time against the greats, which results in more ice time. Couturier's line played a lot last night. The Schenn line scored the first goal of the night's leading to a victory.

Ill never understand this complaint, especially with Couturier. If he is out there to check the opposing teams best player at even strength....well, it doesn't take rocket science to figure this out.
- MBFlyerfan

I wasn't complaining about Coots playing 20 minutes.

It was more about PEB getting 12.5 and Schenn getting 12. I know PK in that game but still if you can cut maybe 2 minutes off PEB at ES and get them to Schenn I think it's almost optimum.

Lol you can't female dog about fancy stats and "watching games" and then your analysis of which line was better comes down to reading a basic box score for 2 individual events.

- Mononoke

My argument was actually that I dont see how someone can say based on stats (fancy or otherwise) that either line was significantly better than the other last night.

The Coots line shut down Matthews, the Flyers needed that to win.
The Schenn line scored a goal, the Flyers needed that to win.

Both were equally as important..

We should talk about wrestlers that came out to 80s music and learned to hit the net more..
- opeth_pa

FTFY

We should talk about wrestlers that came out to 80s music..
- opeth_pa

Ill never understand this complaint, especially with Couturier. If he is out there to check the opposing teams best player at even strength....well, it doesn't take rocket science to figure this out.
- MBFlyerfan

Mike Richards and Keith Prineau did the same. Most ice time but not the traditional number one line.

I'm not a stats guy, but would be curious if someone knows where to find some numbers.

With Couturier out often against the best players, how many goals does his line give up compared to goals scored. For past few years or something.

Thanks in advance. Have a good day hooligans.

My argument was actually that I dont see how someone can say based on stats (fancy or otherwise) that either line was significantly better than the other last night.

The Coots line shut down Matthews, the Flyers needed that to win.
The Schenn line scored a goal, the Flyers needed that to win.

Both were equally as important..
- opeth_pa

Because sometimes you play great and wreck the other line almost every shift...but don't score. But get a tough play against. And sometimes you don't play well, but you get the lucky break and convert it. Things happen. Don't think I'm minimizing that Simmonds got the breakaway and scored because it was crucial. It's just this is why people try to evaluate process and results as two separate things. They don't always match up in the short-term.

What's more likely to happen in the next games? Play average or worse, but another opposing d man flubs a picked pass for a breakaway goal? That's pretty random. Or consistently strong 2-way, cycle/forecheck shifts will lead to a goal? People say the Couturier line shut down Matthews....and they did. But it's usually with the connotation that they prevented them from scoring or played good defense. They actually spent more time in the o-zone than any other line on the Flyers. They had more scoring chances and high danger chances than any other line on the Flyers. They've done that pretty much every game since assembled, but they're the "shutdown" unit? A player can do both. As I already said, Couturier is on the ice for over 1 more goal for than Schenn per 60 minutes, but his lines aren't scoring?

My argument was actually that I dont see how someone can say based on stats (fancy or otherwise) that either line was significantly better than the other last night.

The Coots line shut down Matthews, the Flyers needed that to win.
The Schenn line scored a goal, the Flyers needed that to win.

Both were equally as important..
- opeth_pa

The Couturier line did far more than just shut down Matthews.

My argument was actually that I dont see how someone can say based on stats (fancy or otherwise) that either line was significantly better than the other last night.

The Coots line shut down Matthews, the Flyers needed that to win.
The Schenn line scored a goal, the Flyers needed that to win.

Both were equally as important..
- opeth_pa

This wasn't a playoff victory. This victory will be filed away in the coming months.

This wasn't a playoff victory. This victory will be filed away by the end of the all star break.
- SuperSchennBros

yes

This wasn't a playoff victory. This victory will be filed away in the coming months.
- SuperSchennBros

This could very well end up being the victory that puts them in said playoffs though. Huge win.

The Couturier line did far more than just shut down Matthews.
- MJL

What they didnt do is score though..


Its not a big deal honestly.. I love having both Coots and Schenn on the team and think both play a role , a very important though different role, on the team. Im not in favor of trading either just for the sake of trading either. This season Coots has 8 goals 5 assists and a -4 in 34 games. Maybe their are fancy stats that say he is the MVP of the team right now but in the end, it doesnt really matter to me because like I said, I love having them both on the team.

I'm not a stats guy, but would be curious if someone knows where to find some numbers.

With Couturier out often against the best players, how many goals does his line give up compared to goals scored. For past few years or something.

Thanks in advance. Have a good day hooligans.
- flyer_nutter

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Weblink that will break page
- JFlyers00

Ouch that top name is a dagger

What they didnt do is score though..

- opeth_pa

Because Cousins couldn't convert one on one with the goalie.

And the goal they gave up was when Cousins ran into Manning.

8 and 5 isn't enough production, but I think his rate of assists is unsustainably low compared to his last three seasons.

Is the -4 supposed to be bad on this team? Cause I see a lot worse here.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...yed,gte,25&sort=plusMinus

What they didnt do is score though..


Its not a big deal honestly.. I love having both Coots and Schenn on the team and think both play a role , a very important though different role, on the team. Im not in favor of trading either just for the sake of trading either. This season Coots has 8 goals 5 assists and a -4 in 34 games. Maybe their are fancy stats that say he is the MVP of the team right now but in the end, it doesnt really matter to me because like I said, I love having them both on the team.
- opeth_pa

My comment wasn't about Couturier's complete season, rather it was about his line's play in the game last night.

There is a big difference between playing against the other teams top line and top player, getting hemmed in your own zone, getting outshot, and wearing down your teams defense, while keeping them off the scoreboard, versus playing against a top player or top line and playing in their end, outshooting them, and wearing down their defense, while keeping them off the scoreboard.

Schenn vs. Couturier, it's up to debate as to who is better. It's a stupid debate but it's up for debate. This is the same topic as Carter vs. Richards. Some of you have to hate one. I don't think one is that much better than the other.

Schenn vs. Couturier, it's up to debate as to who is better. It's a stupid debate but it's up for debate. This is the same topic as Carter vs. Richards. Some of you have to hate one. I don't think one is that much better than the other.
- SuperSchennBros

SuperCouturierBro agrees with you

Is the -4 supposed to be bad on this team? Cause I see a lot worse here
- Feanor

He didn't even get to be here for the stretch that Mason was actually good too.

This wasn't a playoff victory. This victory will be filed away in the coming months.
- SuperSchennBros

You have to get to the playoffs before you win a playoff victory.