So your guess is better than measuring actual results?
- James_Tanner

I made this argument to you last week and you ignored me, so I'm not sure why I bother, but...
Watching games can also be referred to as observing. That is one of the steps in the Scientific Method. So, while observing, one can assess and examine different occurrences and determine whether they are helpful or hindering. One does not need to reduce these occurrences to numbers and put them into a fancy equation in order to learn something from them. The fact that there's no stat called %MarincinBlows (%MB) does not mean non-analytics people are guessing.
Would you like to consider this argument or just ignore me again? Or perhaps tell me that you're smarter than me and I need to learn to accept new information and change my mind (which you never seem to think might apply to you)?

I made this argument to you last week and you ignored me, so I'm not sure why I bother, but...
Watching games can also be referred to as observing. That is one of the steps in the Scientific Method. So, while observing, one can assess and examine different occurrences and determine whether they are helpful or hindering. One does not need to reduce these occurrences to numbers and put them into a fancy equation in order to learn something from them. The fact that there's no stat called %MarincinBlows (%MB) does not mean non-analytics people are guessing.
Would you like to consider this argument or just ignore me again? Or perhaps tell me that you're smarter than me and I need to learn to accept new information and change my mind (which you never seem to think might apply to you)?
- Tonybere

Tanners and Tonybere, sittin' in a tree...

Tanners and Tonybere, sittin' in a tree...
- Pat1993

Calc-ulating Dan Gir-ar-di's bad Cor-si

Calc-ulating Dan Gir-ar-di's bad Cor-si
- eichiefs9

1st came Bailey, then came Ladd..

Then came the ending cause this song is bad

Then came the ending cause this song is bad
- Pat1993

Nice.

Then came the ending cause this song is bad
- Pat1993

You started it...

1st came Bailey, then came Ladd..
- mdw7413

Then I caught Pat, do-ing my dad

Then I caught Pat, do-ing my dad
- eichiefs9

Explains why the wife left

I made this argument to you last week and you ignored me, so I'm not sure why I bother, but...
Watching games can also be referred to as observing. That is one of the steps in the Scientific Method. So, while observing, one can assess and examine different occurrences and determine whether they are helpful or hindering. One does not need to reduce these occurrences to numbers and put them into a fancy equation in order to learn something from them. The fact that there's no stat called %MarincinBlows (%MB) does not mean non-analytics people are guessing.
Would you like to consider this argument or just ignore me again? Or perhaps tell me that you're smarter than me and I need to learn to accept new information and change my mind (which you never seem to think might apply to you)?
- Tonybere

That's what I expected.

this is just an example of somebody who NEVER EVER watches a team, looking at corsi and then determining of a guy isn't being used enough

The Rangers are doing the exact thing they should with Brady Skjei's minutes in his first season
- jimbro83

Extra points for those who aren't Ranger fans that can pronounce his name properly.

I used to be suspicious of advanced stats (I had the feeling that it was similar to Moneyball, but even less useful). Now Tanner's argument here has cemented it for me. If advanced stats say that Martin Marincin is a useful part of the Leafs defence (or anyone's defence) and should be considered a long term necessity, then that has convinced me that advanced stats are junk.

For the record (and if anyone cares on a hockey site), so is Moneyball. It's real benefit (and probably true for advanced stats too) was that it looked at something no one else was looking at and the users of it were able to gain an advantage. Not because those stats were ultra valuable like some will have you believe, but because only one team was looking at those stats and finding a way to put it to their advantage. Once everyone (or at least a bunch of teams) were looking at those same stats...advantage over. And it didn't mean that those that didn't excel at Moneyball stats were no good, it was quite the opposite, Moneyball shed light on players deemed to have no value and helped to show some value in those players if they were used right. That's where I think we have people using advanced stats wrong here in hockey. It shouldn't be used to determine if someone is good or not, it should be used to help complete the picture on why someone is good and how to use them to get the most out of them or how someone could be good if used right.

I used to be suspicious of advanced stats (I had the feeling that it was similar to Moneyball, but even less useful). Now Tanner's argument here has cemented it for me. If advanced stats say that Martin Marincin is a useful part of the Leafs defence (or anyone's defence) and should be considered a long term necessity, then that has convinced me that advanced stats are junk.

For the record (and if anyone cares on a hockey site), so is Moneyball. It's real benefit (and probably true for advanced stats too) was that it looked at something no one else was looking at and the users of it were able to gain an advantage. Not because those stats were ultra valuable like some will have you believe, but because only one team was looking at those stats and finding a way to put it to their advantage. Once everyone (or at least a bunch of teams) were looking at those same stats...advantage over. And it didn't mean that those that didn't excel at Moneyball stats were no good, it was quite the opposite, Moneyball shed light on players deemed to have no value and helped to show some value in those players if they were used right. That's where I think we have people using advanced stats wrong here in hockey. It shouldn't be used to determine if someone is good or not, it should be used to help complete the picture on why someone is good and how to use them to get the most out of them or how someone could be good if used right.
- MarcN

The problem is that those who are using analytics as gospel will be the first to tell you they are only tools that should be used with the eye - in other words, there's a lot of blow hards trying to be the man but still haven't had their left testicle drop!

I made this argument to you last week and you ignored me.
- Tonybere

That's what I expected.
- Tonybere

That's pretty much Tanner's modus operandi.