Kris Letang is as elite as they come. Just because he's known for offensive play doesn't mean he's bad defensively.

Letang is a minus 5 on a team with a plus 35 goal differential. elite.
- Khmylev

Letang hit his top end side around 2010 (around 23 years old). Risto is right there too.

Now the word Elite Dman is tough, is he elite as a defender (not allowing goals), as an offensive defense man or being top end at both (but not specifically elite at either one).

I admit I'm slightly intrigued by his PK abilities, something we need quite badly.
- TheSabresTaco

I doubt we do cause of the log jam we have at forwards as is, but never know. We do need to improve our PK, BAD!

Kris Letang is as elite as they come. Just because he's known for offensive play doesn't mean he's bad defensively.
- chilliard77

Absolutely. But that's not the argument. He's an offensive talent with average defensive abilities.

Kris Letang is as elite as they come. Just because he's known for offensive play doesn't mean he's bad defensively.
- chilliard77

He's as overrated as they come.

I admit I'm slightly intrigued by his PK abilities, something we need quite badly.
- TheSabresTaco

Here's another category. Risto is one of the worst PK D men in the NHL

He peaked 4 years ago, moron.
- TheSabresTaco

I dont disagree, but the D played pretty well the last game. Also I don't know his plan for the expansion draft, but moving players that would need to be protected might be part of his plan. I like McCabe, but if you want a Colorado player, that would be (as you stated) part of the cost.

Who knows, just keep hearing we are in the talks with Colorado and I can't believe that is true if we are not offering McCabe up in the deal. Maybe we are getting a dman back that Murray likes? Colorado has little D that I would want though.
- Lilroot9

Colorado is in a pinch with their d-men for the expansion draft. They have two that they are forced to protect, leaving either 1 more plus 7 forwards, or go the 8 total skaters route.

Of their d-men, they will need to add Barrie to the protect list I'd assume (he's not one of the automatic 2 NMC guys), plus they have Zadorov to consider what to do with.

Absolutely. But that's not the argument. He's an offensive talent with average defensive abilities.
- TheSabresTaco

He's pretty close to being elite defensively too.

If the argument is Risto's defense v. Letang's defense there's really no contest

He's pretty close to being elite defensively too.

If the argument is Risto's defense v. Letang's defense there's really no contest
- chilliard77

None whatsoever

Here's another category. Risto is one of the worst PK D men in the NHL
- sbroads24

Letang is fourth ON HIS TEAM in average shorthanded TOI. Elite defensive ability.

None whatsoever
- sbroads24

So you would trade Risto for Letang straight up then?

Letang is fourth ON HIS TEAM in average shorthanded TOI. Elite defensive ability.
- Khmylev

And we are the 30th ranked PK, with the elite Risto and above average Lehner. Whouda thunk it, amirite?

He's pretty close to being elite defensively too.

If the argument is Risto's defense v. Letang's defense there's really no contest
- chilliard77

Letang also doesn't play a full season. Like ever.

So you would trade Risto for Letang straight up then?
- jcragcrumple

Yes, but I might hesitate because Risto is much more durable.

But there isn't a debate as to who's better, really

Kulikov back at practice.

Hopefully his case of butthurt has been cured
- chilliard77

He'll need to activate his glutes.

Colorado is in a pinch with their d-men for the expansion draft. They have two that they are forced to protect, leaving either 1 more plus 7 forwards, or go the 8 total skaters route.

Of their d-men, they will need to add Barrie to the protect list I'd assume (he's not one of the automatic 2 NMC guys), plus they have Zadorov to consider what to do with.
- stashu

So from what you are saying, they are either hoping to include one of the NMC guys into the deal or maybe dont want a d man right now? Cause they can't lose either of those two Zadorov, Barrie and defineitly not whomever they get in a trade. Hmmmm

Here's another category. Risto is one of the worst PK D men in the NHL
- sbroads24

had no idea all of these stats were solely owned by one guy and not the 25th place team in front of him.

Being paired with Josh Gorges has been an incredible downfall for Risto and others.

Having a terrible PK unit, which he is sometimes a part of, falls on not only him but the 3 other guys on the ice.

What you're suggesting is that he hasn't single handedly brought this team to the playoffs, despite the numerous fallacies on this roster, especially most of the other defensemen who've never heard of or ever been able to play transition hockey.

What I'm offering to you in return for his bad numbers besides being surrounded by, let's be honest, a flat out bad defensive corp and a team who can't score on 5v5 let alone at all, is a guy who has improved his abilities every year since he entered the league, and with better talent and more experience can rise to an elite level of play. I will agree that he has not hit that "elite" level yet, exceeding in all situations, but I'm willing to bet he's on that 2nd tier of great defensemen right now. And that tier has Letang, Josi, Subban, Ekblad, Lindholm and Giordano.

Letang also doesn't play a full season. Like ever.
- jcragcrumple

There are 4 minus players on that team that have played more than 25 games. Wison, Bonino as forwards and Dumoulin and Letang as defensemen. He is not good at the Defense.

Yes, but I might hesitate because Risto is much more durable.

But there isn't a debate as to who's better, really
- sbroads24

Well the trade straight up stuff, take age into that. Letang 29, Risto 22, no way you make that trade. But doesnt Latang have health concerns too? (like how much into his 30's he can play, concern)

Again, most of the players you can discuss seem to be placed in a particular good situation. So Letang playing with Crosby and Malkin all the time, does that not make him better because of association?

Well the trade straight up stuff, take age into that. Letang 29, Risto 22, no way you make that trade. But doesnt Latang have health concerns too? (like how much into his 30's he can play, concern)

Again, most of the players you can discuss seem to be placed in a particular good situation. So Letang playing with Crosby and Malkin all the time, does that not make him better because of association?
- Lilroot9

Trading Risto for Letang. Jesus Christ.

had no idea all of these stats were solely owned by one guy and not the 25th place team in front of him.

Being paired with Josh Gorges has been an incredible downfall for Risto and others.

Having a terrible PK unit, which he is sometimes a part of, falls on not only him but the 3 other guys on the ice.

What you're suggesting is that he hasn't single handedly brought this team to the playoffs, despite the numerous fallacies on this roster, especially most of the other defensemen who've never heard of or ever been able to play transition hockey.

What I'm offering to you in return for his bad numbers besides being surrounded by, let's be honest, a flat out bad defensive corp and a team who can't score on 5v5 let alone at all, is a guy who has improved his abilities every year since he entered the league, and with better talent and more experience can rise to an elite level of play. I will agree that he has not hit that "elite" level yet, exceeding in all situations, but I'm willing to bet he's on that 2nd tier of great defensemen right now. And that tier has Letang, Josi, Subban, Ekblad, Lindholm and Giordano.
- TheSabresTaco

So it's the team around the guy playing almost half the game? Why isn't Risto helping the 5 on 5 scoring? Why is the #1 d man not helping the PK, why is he just a passenger instead of a driver?

I can think of another guy who had some great point totals his first few years, but had red flags. Dion Phaneuf.

Trading Risto for Letang. Jesus Christ.
- TheSabresTaco

I would never, just stating other stuff.

So it's the team around the guy playing almost half the game? Why isn't Risto helping the 5 on 5 scoring? Why is the #1 d man not helping the PK, why is he just a passenger instead of a driver?

I can think of another guy who had some great point totals his first few years, but had red flags. Dion Phaneuf.
- sbroads24

You're reaching. Hard.

You're reaching. Hard.
- Khmylev

It was reverse with Tyler Myers, an unarguably worse defenseman.