It did. But when all the player can do is hit, he's not very good. Skilled players can play physically, but not all physical players have skill.
- jmatchett383

Stoopid logical response.

Nahh it was Rino that started it. Listen, IMO Rust is fine in a bottom 6 role. I just don't think he's a good fit for the top 6 at all. I don't think he needs to be traded/scratched/sent down or anything like that. Id just like to see him in a different role.
- j.boyd919

He's not wrong that Hornqvist is in a slump. 3 even strength goals from a first line winger is not good. His goal total period isn't great either. He's barely on pace to crack 20 goals this year. He actually has one less than Bryan Rust. I'm not saying Rust should be on the first line over him. I've actually argued that Hornqvist needs to be back with Crosby for a while now. But that doesn't change the fact that he needs to be a more meaningful even strength contributor. PPs are hard to come by in the playoffs.

No I didn't! I just agree that Horn was in a slump and Rust isn't a bad option in the top six! Geez.
- Rinosaur

I do think he is a bad option in the top 6 though.

Again.. at 5v5..
Sid with Horny - 16 GF, 6 GA
Sid with Rust - 9 GF, 10 GA

If him with Sid is dragging the goal differential in the negative.. he needs to be taken off that line.

He's not wrong that Hornqvist is in a slump. 3 even strength goals from a first line winger is not good. His goal total period isn't great either. He's barely on pace to crack 20 goals this year. He actually has one less than Bryan Rust. I'm not saying Rust should be on the first line over him. I've actually argued that Hornqvist needs to be back with Crosby for a while now. But that doesn't change the fact that he needs to be a more meaningful even strength contributor. PPs are hard to come by in the playoffs.
- Victoro311

That's not true at all. Pens had 3.18 PP per game last regular season, and during the playoffs they had 3.2 PP per game.

That's not true at all. Pens had 3.18 PP per game last regular season, and during the playoffs they had 3.2 PP per game.
- j.boyd919

Fine. Lets rely on special teams then. Being reliant on special teams has never sunk anybody in the past.

He's not wrong that Hornqvist is in a slump. 3 even strength goals from a first line winger is not good. His goal total period isn't great either. He's barely on pace to crack 20 goals this year. He actually has one less than Bryan Rust. I'm not saying Rust should be on the first line over him. I've actually argued that Hornqvist needs to be back with Crosby for a while now. But that doesn't change the fact that he needs to be a more meaningful even strength contributor. PPs are hard to come by in the playoffs.
- Victoro311

Also, I don't believe its right to sacrifice more goals against, for a player to have more production. Regardless of his ES production, Sid's line is 2 GF for every 1 GA with Horny, and just under 1:1 with Rust.

EDIT: Almost 3:1 for Horny..

Fine. Lets rely on special teams then. Being reliant on special teams has never sunk anybody in the past.
- Victoro311

^^refer to Sid's 5v5 production of GF and GA with both Horny and Rust.

I agree, but TIOPS reported that Geuntzel is a possibility to man the 4th line. They made no mention of Sundqvist getting called up.
- Rinosaur

I don't guentzel gets bumped to fourth line. They want to see if Guentzel can be Malkins wing during the playoffs. Guy was just blowing smoke on that site. Fehr is logical to boost trade value. Sundqvist is logical to see if he's our 5th best center in case an injury happens in the playoffs and every gets bumped up.

My gut says Fehr as they hope to get a pick for him and move the salary which is obviously whats best for the team now. q

^^refer to Sid's 5v5 production of GF and GA with both Horny and Rust.
- j.boyd919

What in the world? Once again. Not arguing Hornqvist vs. Rust. Stop trying to turn that into the argument. Saying Hornqvist needs to score more goals at even strength, which is pretty cut and dry since he only has a whopping 3 this year. He's being paid 4+ mil a year to be a first line, 20+ goal scoring winger. He needs to step up.

What in the world? Once again. Not arguing Hornqvist vs. Rust. Stop trying to turn that into the argument. Saying Hornqvist needs to score more goals at even strength, which is pretty cut and dry since he only has a whopping 3 this year. He's being paid 4+ mil a year to be a first line, 20+ goal scoring winger. He needs to step up.
- Victoro311

If his point total is 45+ by seasons end, regardless of where it came from... did he earn his paycheck? I'll agree he's not scoring at ES, but if the other team isn't scorin when he's on the ice either, and the rest of his line is putting in the goals, and he still ends up with 40-45 points... I'm fine with that.

There's ceertain players, Hemsky and Jokinen being two, who always seem to acquire points but where they never seem to matter. Vanek has become like them, and I can't really explain my feelings on it well.

Do you remember the Phillie's outfield Bobby Abreu? He was the king of smacking a 2-run homer in the late innings of a 7-4 loss, and his stats always looked great because of it. Kind of the same thing with those guys.
- jmatchett383

dude yes spot on

What in the world? Once again. Not arguing Hornqvist vs. Rust. Stop trying to turn that into the argument. Saying Hornqvist needs to score more goals at even strength, which is pretty cut and dry since he only has a whopping 3 this year. He's being paid 4+ mil a year to be a first line, 20+ goal scoring winger. He needs to step up.
- Victoro311

Being put with someone he has an ounce of chemistry with will probably help with that.

What in the world? Once again. Not arguing Hornqvist vs. Rust. Stop trying to turn that into the argument. Saying Hornqvist needs to score more goals at even strength, which is pretty cut and dry since he only has a whopping 3 this year. He's being paid 4+ mil a year to be a first line, 20+ goal scoring winger. He needs to step up.
- Victoro311

Yeah, I gave up. He just wants to argue Rust vs. Horn for some reason.

There's ceertain players, Hemsky and Jokinen being two, who always seem to acquire points but where they never seem to matter. Vanek has become like them, and I can't really explain my feelings on it well.

Do you remember the Phillie's outfield Bobby Abreu? He was the king of smacking a 2-run homer in the late innings of a 7-4 loss, and his stats always looked great because of it. Kind of the same thing with those guys.
- jmatchett383

I just wanted to do some digging on this... of his 12 goals this season.. at 5v5...

1 Goal put them up by 2
2 goals tied the game
5 of them broke a tie game

His other 3 goals were on the PP. Looks his goals have helped contribute. Wasn't out to prove you wrong, was just curious to when his production came.

Yeah, I gave up. He just wants to argue Rust vs. Horn for some reason.
- Rinosaur

No, I just like to see players play where they are going to succeed for the betterment of the team.

No, I just like to see players play where they are going to succeed for the betterment of the team.
- j.boyd919

Someone saying Hornqvist is in a scoring slump and in response, cramming a Rust vs. Hornqvist agenda in response is exactly that.

Someone saying Hornqvist is in a scoring slump and in response, cramming a Rust vs. Hornqvist agenda in response is exactly that.
- Rinosaur

All of my responses were aimed at you saying that Rust isn't a liability on Sid's line, all of the numbers I've posted show Sid's line production hitting the negatives since Rust was put there, which, in my eyes makes him a liability and I used Horny as an example as to how Sid's production looks better with a more competent player.

I just wanted to do some digging on this... of his 12 goals this season.. at 5v5...

1 Goal put them up by 2
2 goals tied the game
5 of them broke a tie game

His other 3 goals were on the PP. Looks his goals have helped contribute. Wasn't out to prove you wrong, was just curious to when his production came.
- j.boyd919

And maybe he's scoring more "clutch" goals this season. Again, not dumping on the guy or saying he's bad, I just don't think he's more than a complimentary/tretiary piece on a contender.

Not sure if it was mentioned on previous pages, but Cullen is out 3 weeks with a bad foot.

And maybe he's scoring more "clutch" goals this season. Again, not dumping on the guy or saying he's bad, I just don't think he's more than a complimentary/tretiary piece on a contender.
- jmatchett383

Oh definitely I agree with you there, I didn't want to acquire him to be like a "hossa" or "Iginla" type deal. Just to help add some depth to the RW. I'd rather have Vanek over Fehr/Kuhn/etc. that's the only reason I brought his name up

Not sure if it was mentioned on previous pages, but Cullen is out 3 weeks with a bad foot.
- hardnosed

How bad?

Oh definitely I agree with you there, I didn't want to acquire him to be like a "hossa" or "Iginla" type deal. Just to help add some depth to the RW. I'd rather have Vanek over Fehr/Kuhn/etc. that's the only reason I brought his name up
- j.boyd919

If you wanted to put him in a "middle 6" (if you will) role and some time on the 2nd PP unit, he'd be a good fit. I just wouldn't break the bank to get him.

Not sure if it was mentioned on previous pages, but Cullen is out 3 weeks with a bad foot.
- hardnosed

Those damn blocked shots. They should outlaw blocked shots and hits, all it does it take away from the speed and skill of the game. Speaking of blocking a shot what was Cullen doing pinned in his own zone? You only block shots when your pinned in your own zone. The Pens PK should be generating controled zone exits and entrances not blocking shots like a bunch of plugs!

That was a hell of a shot he took in the foot though.

Also, I don't believe its right to sacrifice more goals against, for a player to have more production. Regardless of his ES production, Sid's line is 2 GF for every 1 GA with Horny, and just under 1:1 with Rust.

EDIT: Almost 3:1 for Horny..
- j.boyd919

I'm curious what does the trickle down effect look like for the other lines with Hornqvist or Rust with Crosby ? How does it effect Malkins line ?

Anyone who needs a reason to bump Rust off the first line needs to watch his butchering of the wide open chance Sid gave him. He didn't even get a shot off.
- Thorny87

He was exhausted at the end of a long shift. I want him off that line too, but I've seen great players butcher chances when they're out of gas.