I'm not seeing the Keith is not himself having a bad season stuff. If anything just as an average fan watching the Hawks, Seabrook's having more of an off season than Keith. Keith's ATOI (26:00) this season is higher than it's been since the since the 2011/12 season. Granted he's not scoring goals but his pts total is on track to be the 2nd or third highest of his career.
The injury card sounds a whole lot like an excuse. Toews with 0 SOG last night. If he has an injury, he should be off the ice and rehabbing it. Like you said, you don't have his medical file. So, as long as he is suiting up every night, he needs to start resembling the guy that got the $10.5mil contract. Toews' line was once again a non-factor offensively. Meanwhile, Patrick Kane continues to play like a Super-Star and reigning Hart+Art Ross Trophy winner. 72+88 are a reason to watch every night, regardless of the rest of the roster and whether or not they can win another Cup. - EnzoD
So you don't have Toews center the "other" top 6 line because he's playing through injury. Then who does who's gonna be any better than 65% of Toews?
Answer: no one. Not Nick Schmaltz. No one.
Another way you can look at it, which I suspect may be the case. They can shut Toews down for the year and hope his back gets better through rest and PT, or surgery. Or he plays through it and does something to earn his $$, in the absence of another answer. And they address the back in the offseason, one way or the other.
Kane was a superstar for 30 minutes last night. He hasn't been that great along with the rest of the team overall for a while.
I'm not seeing the Keith is not himself having a bad season stuff. If anything just as an average fan watching the Hawks, Seabrook's having more of an off season than Keith. Keith's ATOI (26:00) this season is higher than it's been since the since the 2011/12 season. Granted he's not scoring goals but his pts total is on track to be the 2nd or third highest of his career. - walleyeb1
Well, I have watched him and this team closely, just my opinion, but more knowledgeable people than i will attest to this: he is the "engine" that drives most of the offense from the back-end. And I don't just mean points.
I mean: possession-changing defense, initiating the break, fast transition.
I don't see those things happening like they have in the past.
Keith also looks slow to pucks and seems to be getting beaten one on one a lot, which seems like it's due to a mobility limitation (injury) as opposed to a sudden decline in ability.
In fact, he and Toews both look really limited (compared to their historic norms) one on one and in traffic.
So you don't have Toews center the "other" top 6 line because he's playing through injury. Then who does who's gonna be any better than 65% of Toews?
Answer: no one. Not Nick Schmaltz. No one.
Another way you can look at it, which I suspect may be the case. They can shut Toews down for the year and hope his back gets better through rest and PT, or surgery. Or he plays through it and does something to earn his $$, in the absence of another answer. And they address the back in the offseason, one way or the other.
Kane was a superstar for 30 minutes last night. He hasn't been that great along with the rest of the team overall for a while. - John Jaeckel
I'm not trying to argue with you but Patrick Kane is Top 5 in the NHL in scoring after running away with the scoring title last season by nearly 20 points over 2nd place. Without 72-15-88, this is a lottery team bc NOBODY else can score consistently. If Toews truly has a back issue that rest wont heal, then I guess the Hawks are just Royally Franked bc what 19 is bringing to the ice on a nightly basis isn't enough to get them over the top.
If you think JVR plays a 2-way game then you've never watched him. - djamon
Thats fine, then surely you would take TVR and Motte for JVR considering you know, he's not a 2way player
Kidding aside, he does play a 2-way game and to further elaborate, way better than Vanek in that respect as well. I think JVR gets a short end of the stick in Toronto. I'm not the big in depth stat taker like many are becoming nowadays but if I had to toss my money on it, I am sure when JVR is on the ice the shots for to shots against ratio is probably pretty good. I know that doesn't decipher a player but neither does +/- or any other stat that we try to use to define a 2way forward.
I think Hartman is closer to middle 6 talent with Schmaltz than with bottom 6 talent like Hino and Motte, but otherwise I agree. Well, and that Gus has some value (very very small as a throw in) vs Svedberg who has zero.
Vanek would be a waste for this particular team - not only would it cost more than other options but he doesn't fit Q's system (which we all know how that works out).
If top 6 talent is too hard to come by (which it sounds like it is, currently), then maybe go for small upgrades with some offense (Parenteau?) and/or defense (Riley Nash type). Longer shot of working but lower risk / less costly. - L_B_R
There we agree. Based on performance in professional hockey so far,
Hartman > Schmaltz
Well, I have watched him and this team closely, just my opinion, but more knowledgeable people than i will attest to this: he is the "engine" that drives most of the offense from the back-end. And I don't just mean points.
I mean: possession-changing defense, initiating the break, fast transition.
I don't see those things happening like they have in the past.
Keith also looks slow to pucks and seems to be getting beaten one on one a lot, which seems like it's due to a mobility limitation (injury) as opposed to a sudden decline in ability.
In fact, he and Toews both look really limited (compared to their historic norms) one on one and in traffic. - John Jaeckel
Keith never got beat 1v1 during his run as a Top 3 Dman in the entire NHL from 2008-2015. He has been getting beaten far too often lately. I'd argue that an injury that limits mobility/quickness would in fact be a decline in ability. He injured the knee in the 2015 playoffs if I'm not mistaken. Once you lose a step due to injury, it's hard to get it back.
Keith never got beat 1v1 during his run as a Top 3 Dman in the entire NHL from 2008-2015. He has been getting beaten far too often lately. I'd argue that an injury that limits mobility/quickness would in fact be a decline in ability. He injured the knee in the 2015 playoffs if I'm not mistaken. Once you lose a step due to injury, it's hard to get it back. - EnzoD
If it's based on recent trades, that's actually not off market value set by Hall and Kessel. I mean, Hall only pulled in a 3rd pair d-man, who at best could be a #4 on a so-so team, and Kessel's trade ended up being a 1st (with conditions and salary retained) + an offensive forward prospect (still in the AHL). Put those together and you have 3rd pair d-man and a forward prospect (though likely more than Motte) and/or a pick of some kind. Price will be driven up somewhat by the TDL or they'll hold him until next year when the haul would be better.
But lbr that both Hall and Kessel are better than JVR (and I say that as someone who wants JVR, as everyone here knows). - L_B_R
Thats fine, then surely you would take TVR and Motte for JVR considering you know, he's not a 2way player
Kidding aside, he does play a 2-way game and to further elaborate, way better than Vanek in that respect as well. I think JVR gets a short end of the stick in Toronto. I'm not the big in depth stat taker like many are becoming nowadays but if I had to toss my money on it, I am sure when JVR is on the ice the shots for to shots against ratio is probably pretty good. I know that doesn't decipher a player but neither does +/- or any other stat that we try to use to define a 2way forward. - purepone
He's great around the other teams net.
The end.
I'm sure he's a touch better then how I described but.....................
Keith never got beat 1v1 during his run as a Top 3 Dman in the entire NHL from 2008-2015. He has been getting beaten far too often lately. I'd argue that an injury that limits mobility/quickness would in fact be a decline in ability. He injured the knee in the 2015 playoffs if I'm not mistaken. Once you lose a step due to injury, it's hard to get it back. - EnzoD
Posted this on the last thread (late) in response to Mr. Richochet and Savvy's question to JJ on why Toews would have been bowling if indeed he has a back injury. You'll see at the bottom that both Keith and Toews are getting PT for mobility:
Was the one who saw him bowling on Wednesday and said he looked pretty nimble. Couple of pics for you bowlers, in the event it actually looks like he is favoring an injury.
Looks like he and Keith are both working on mobility/flexibility.
Yes that was hyperbole on the "never", but its was EXTREMELY rare to see #2 get beat in a 1v1 battle. Seeing 2 lose foot races, puck battles, and get beat 1v1 exponentially more frequently than in years past. Is it mental or physical or both?
