The other one's on his weiner.
- Garnie

We got it, was the wooden table Balsa?

Plus minus is a great stat when it suits their arguement, is he not a plus in Pittsburg, was he not a plus in Boston.
Yeah, nothing to do with JVR Blozak and Bernier....
- bobbyisno1

Of course....blame everyone else. Marner seems to be finding his own end playing with those 2 clowns.

We got it, was the wooden table Balsa?
- bobbyisno1

hehe, go (frank) yourself.

Of course....blame everyone else. Marner seems to be finding his own end playing with those 2 clowns.
- Garnie

But his plus minus?

But his plus minus?
- burn

What about it?

Not sure the sample size is large enough....but lets discuss, you go first.

But his plus minus?
- burn

The NHL coaches certainly pay attention to that stat.. BUt what do they know.

What about it?

Not sure the sample size is large enough....but lets discuss, you go first.
- Garnie

Why does the NHL give an award for such a dumb / useless stat.

The NHL Plus-Minus Award was a trophy awarded annually by the National Hockey League to the ice hockey "player, having played a minimum of 60 games, who leads the league in plus/minus statistics

14 years, only missing a few in between 1996 - 2007

What about it?

Not sure the sample size is large enough....but lets discuss, you go first.
- Garnie

Isn't it pretty bad? You think it's Reflation of his play?

The NHL coaches certainly pay attention to that stat.. BUt what do they know.
- bixll

plus minus seems a very pertinent statistic to me.
should be somehow taken into context of opposition though (obviously rielly and zaitsev having a harder time preventing goals against since they're playing kane, crosby and tavares, while Gardie and Carrick are getting Panik, Cullen and Setoguchi..).

TRADE WILLIE

plus minus seems a very pertinent statistic to me.
should be somehow taken into context of opposition though (obviously rielly and zaitsev having a harder time preventing goals against since they're playing kane, crosby and tavares, while Gardie and Carrick are getting Panik, Cullen and Setoguchi..).
- MaximusAurelius

Agreed.

The NHL coaches certainly pay attention to that stat.. BUt what do they know.
- bixll

Far less than they use to. More useful stat beoming available

Far less than they use to. More useful stat beoming available
- burn

As Max said, they all have to be taken with a grain of salt. Or there would be no scouts. Just stats guys.

Isn't it pretty bad? You think it's Reflation of his play?
- burn

I don't know...is it bad? I'm talking about Kessel being -80 while on the Leafs...so I'm not sure if -5 for a 19yr old kid after 39 games is bad or not?? I'll wait to see what you think then I'll know.

As Max said, they all have to be taken with a grain of salt. Or there would be no scouts. Just stats guys.
- bixll

The issue with +/- is that you can get a mark on your name (good or bad) for something you didn't have a hand in

I don't know...is it bad? I'm talking about Kessel being -80 while on the Leafs...so I'm not sure if -5 for a 19yr old kid after 39 games is bad or not?? I'll wait to see what you think then I'll know.
- Garnie

His +/- is worse on the team, but I don't think he's remotely close to worst defensively.

Is he what his +/- says he is or is the stat not be all?

The issue with +/- is that you can get a mark on your name (good or bad) for something you didn't have a hand in
- burn

Seems the guys with bad numbers certainly know it. Guys have an off year that number certainly shows it.

Some lazyer players that do not play in their own end get away with it with their offense. They are still poor defensively.

The issue with +/- is that you can get a mark on your name (good or bad) for something you didn't have a hand in
- burn

That's the biggest problem with the +/- stat. If they could fix that it would be a really good stat.

(Especially when Bozak jumps the boards for a change and Player X jumps on, other team scores and Player X gets an automatic minus before he hits the blue line )

His +/- is worse on the team, but I don't think he's remotely close to worst defensively.

Is he what his +/- says he is or is the stat not be all?
- burn

Phil showed in the playoffs last year that he is capable of playing 2 way hockey. So, he is capable... he is just lazy.

I watch a lot of the Pens games because he Leafs games are blocked here a lot. Phil takes a lot of shifts off, not near the level of play he showed. But he has an 8 million dollar wrister.

JMO

His +/- is worse on the team, but I don't think he's remotely close to worst defensively.

Is he what his +/- says he is or is the stat not be all?
- burn

Can you give the 19 yr old kid 80 games 1st?

He's not perfect defensively either..hence the quick demotion to line 4.

It's a line stat...but I find it hilarious the guys in here who blame everybody but Kessel for his -80 and the Leafs losing.

The issue with +/- is that you can get a mark on your name (good or bad) for something you didn't have a hand in
- burn

That goes for almost every stat....except scoring goals.

The issue with +/- is that you can get a mark on your name (good or bad) for something you didn't have a hand in
- burn

not true.
if you are on the ice, you're part of the play.
you could argue the same for posession and any other stat if you take your reasoning.
sure, sometimes a player is not to blame for a goal against or contributing to a goal in favor, but if you look at the 3+ season numbers, and you see a clear pattern, then surely there is some use for the plus/minus stat (at least as much to this as to the posession stats).

TRADE WILLIE
- MaximusAurelius

FREE WILLIE

FREE WILLIE
- Fruitcakenipple

tak' yer sock off..

tak' yer sock off..
- Tumbleweed

i did...