The Kessel thing is quite simple. He's not a Babcock player and never will be.
In Babcock's system, it is also why Kap can't replace JvR (so please stop suggesting it)

Babcock rolls three lines using the same system.
1 net presence (Hyman, JvR, Komarov) who play the Holmstrom role of banging in dirty goals, and screening the goalie.

The other two forwards then become responsible for doing work along the boards to dig out the puck and start the cycle. Matthews and Brown do this very well together. Marner/Bozak, and then Kadri and Nylander (although this is why Willy ends up in the doghouse from time to time)

Kessel isn't going to be a net presence type and he continually showed that he would not do the work along the boards. This is why he was traded.
- ILoveLamp

Huh? Why?

13m
James Mirtle‏ @mirtle
Babcock said today that Matthews' ability without the puck has "gone through the roof" very quickly.


15m
James Mirtle‏ @mirtle
Babcock said today that McElhinney will play one of the Leafs next two games. Hasn't decided which one yet.

I hope it's the king, we have a history of lighting him up.
- burn

He hasn't been playing well (for him)

yes, far better to trust a whole load of stats that are derived from a subjective count of shots towards the goal, that are then expressed to a tenth of a percent accuracy and sold as "possession".

... maybe one day we will decide games based on shots towards the goal, and "possession".
- Aetherial

I feel like you are stuck in 2013 with these anti-stats rants

calling someone a lazy (frank) over a plus minus stat...have at it

Huh? Why?
- burn

Because Kap isn't being groomed in the Leaf system to play a net presence. He's going to be one of the other two on the boards, digging out the pucks and taking the shots.

I don't ignore the +/- stat. I don't treat it like gospel either, but it is a stat I do observe.

So..trying to keep up

-Pittsburg won because of the team not Kessel
-Leafs didnt win because of Kessel
-Kessel makes a team better...but DOES NOT make them cup winners

Think I got it
- senstroll

Maybe I can get this right....Pens only win because Kessel is the best winger in the league...before that they rarely make a playoff appearance...right?

Leafs just got unlucky when Kessel was here and it had nothing to do with him and his minus 80....but it was all the teams fault and had nothing to do with Phil rarely finding his own end...right?

I think I got it.

I feel like you are stuck in 2013 with these anti-stats rants

calling someone a lazy (frank) over a plus minus stat...have at it
- senstroll

Can I call Kessel a lazy (frank) because he's objectively a lazy hockey player?

Maybe I can get this right....Pens only win because Kessel is the best winger in the league...before that they rarely make a playoff appearance...right?

Leafs just got unlucky when Kessel was here and it had nothing to do with him and his minus 80....but it was all the teams fault and had nothing to do with Phil rarely finding his own end...right?

I think I got it.
- Garnie

You should have just smashed ya head into a brick wall

Because Kap isn't being groomed in the Leaf system to play a net presence. He's going to be one of the other two on the boards, digging out the pucks and taking the shots.
- ILoveLamp

What does that have to do with anything.

Maybe I can get this right....Pens only win because Kessel is the best winger in the league...before that they rarely make a playoff appearance...right?

Leafs just got unlucky when Kessel was here and it had nothing to do with him and his minus 80....but it was all the teams fault and had nothing to do with Phil rarely finding his own end...right?

I think I got it.
- Garnie

right because there is no in between here.

Its ok to say Phil Helped the Pens win t he cup. Because he did

Its also ok to say that Leafs Management was terrible at their Job and assembled a terrible team.

the value assigned to plus minus by Fans is (frank)ing absurd.. Justin shultz is at the top of the NHL now with +23 ... he was a -22 last season in 40 games

Ekblad is -15 in 45 games this season .. Both must be Lazy (frank)s

You should have just smashed ya head into a brick wall
- Fruitcakenipple

I smashed it off a wooden table.

What does that have to do with anything.
- burn

You can't replace JvR with Kap because they are not the same type of player and Kap will not play the same role on the big club.

You might be able to shift Brown off the Matthews line to replace JvR, but both Leipsic and Kap are not "replacements for JvR", they will play different roles on the club.

On the Marlies, I believe they are trying to convert Rychel into a net presence (but he hasn't adjusted well)

right because there is no in between here.

Its ok to say Phil Helped the Pens win t he cup. Because he did

Its also ok to say that Leafs Management was terrible at their Job and assembled a terrible team.

the value assigned to plus minus by Fans is (frank)ing absurd.. Justin shultz is at the top of the NHL now with +23 ... he was a -22 last season in 40 games

Ekblad is -15 in 45 games this season .. Both must be Lazy (frank)s
- senstroll

He has looked great in Pittsburgh this season. You could see exactly when he started to turn a corner, stepping into the void left by Letangs injury. Similar to Jakey here in Toronto. Again, plus minus isn't of great value, but like any form of statistical analytics, it can help formulate a bit of whats going on. Fact is, Schultz is on for a lot of goals for right now, and is playing a big part in those goals being scored. He's on for less goals against than he ever has been in his career, and now his ATOI in Pittsburgh has been rising. I think over this hot 17 game stretch he's over 20 min/g.

He was such a minus in Edmonton because put simply, he wasn't ready to be a top line d-man there. In Pittsburgh, he's been eased into a top 4 role.

I remember a time, oh as far back as last year, that whenever the Leafs were off for an extended period of time I was happy because they hadn't lost lately. Now I know they would be totally rockin' it with sick ass goals and passes. So now I'm sad. (frank)ing Garnie and Burn (frank) everything up, ever notice?

right because there is no in between here.

Its ok to say Phil Helped the Pens win t he cup. Because he did

Its also ok to say that Leafs Management was terrible at their Job and assembled a terrible team.

the value assigned to plus minus by Fans is (frank)ing absurd.. Justin shultz is at the top of the NHL now with +23 ... he was a -22 last season in 40 games

Ekblad is -15 in 45 games this season .. Both must be Lazy (frank)s
- senstroll

For sure he helped them win....pretty sure they still have a chance without him too. If you can honestly call Phil a great player who plays a 200 ft game and helps his team win at all costs then we should move on to a different subject. I'd take a guy who scores less but prevents goals over Kessel any day of the week. As EVERYONE has said...he's got a great shot and sure I miss seeing it as a Leaf fan....but for myself I'd rather take the 2 points and win 1-0 then lose 7-6. Just my 2 cents and again...I'm a fan of Kessel the person...lesser a fan as the go to guy on the Leafs if that makes any sense.

I don't care about the 2 other guys...I don't watch them enough. I can call out Kessel's 200 ft game without ever seeing his plus/minus.

right because there is no in between here.

Its ok to say Phil Helped the Pens win t he cup. Because he did

Its also ok to say that Leafs Management was terrible at their Job and assembled a terrible team.

the value assigned to plus minus by Fans is (frank)ing absurd.. Justin shultz is at the top of the NHL now with +23 ... he was a -22 last season in 40 games

Ekblad is -15 in 45 games this season .. Both must be Lazy (frank)s
- senstroll

conditional 7th for ekblad

I remember a time, oh as far back as last year, that whenever the Leafs were off for an extended period of time I was happy because they hadn't lost lately. Now I know they would be totally rockin' it with sick ass goals and passes. So now I'm sad. (frank)ing Garnie and Burn (frank) everything up, ever notice?
- weirdoh

Only thing i have on is 3 socks..

Only thing i have on is 3 socks..
- Fruitcakenipple

Too bad you didn't have one big pink one hanging out the back. I'd be in heaven bi

You can't replace JvR with Kap because they are not the same type of player and Kap will not play the same role on the big club.

You might be able to shift Brown off the Matthews line to replace JvR, but both Leipsic and Kap are not "replacements for JvR", they will play different roles on the club.

On the Marlies, I believe they are trying to convert Rychel into a net presence (but he hasn't adjusted well)
- ILoveLamp

I dont think it matters. Good players with skill who can play in the sytem

conditional 7th for ekblad that lazy (frank)
- Tumbleweed

*fixed*

Only thing i have on is 3 socks..
- Fruitcakenipple

I found tbe missing one to your pair.

I remember a time, oh as far back as last year, that whenever the Leafs were off for an extended period of time I was happy because they hadn't lost lately. Now I know they would be totally rockin' it with sick ass goals and passes. So now I'm sad. (frank)ing Garnie and Burn (frank) everything up, ever notice?
- weirdoh

Sorry.

I found tbe missing one to your pair.


- Tumbleweed

The other one's on his weiner.

He has looked great in Pittsburgh this season. You could see exactly when he started to turn a corner, stepping into the void left by Letangs injury. Similar to Jakey here in Toronto. Again, plus minus isn't of great value, but like any form of statistical analytics, it can help formulate a bit of whats going on. Fact is, Schultz is on for a lot of goals for right now, and is playing a big part in those goals being scored. He's on for less goals against than he ever has been in his career, and now his ATOI in Pittsburgh has been rising. I think over this hot 17 game stretch he's over 20 min/g.

He was such a minus in Edmonton because put simply, he wasn't ready to be a top line d-man there. In Pittsburgh, he's been eased into a top 4 role.
- mykokes

Plus minus is a great stat when it suits their arguement, is he not a plus in Pittsburg, was he not a plus in Boston.
Yeah, nothing to do with JVR Blozak and Bernier....