He's on pace for 50+ starts this year no?


I sometimes get the impression that management tends to believe that.
- Sabresfan-365

isn't the starting goalie supposed to get that many...maybe even more?

and weren't some people complaining that the supposed starting goalie was always injured and never even came close to that number?

isn't the starting goalie supposed to get that many...maybe even more?

and weren't some people complaining that the supposed starting goalie was always injured and never even came close to that number?
- Michael Pachla

Oh that wasnt meant to be a point on my part i was just saying it looks like hes pushing starter esque minutes this year and there really isnt much deviation in his stats. He is what he is.

I didnt know off hand how many starts hes had.

Oh that wasnt meant to be a point on my part i was just saying it looks like hes pushing starter esque minutes this year and there really isnt much deviation in his stats. He is what he is.
- Sabresfan-365

not sure you can say he is what he is as a starting goalie until he plays a full season in that role...he should end up doing that and in the end murray will need to make a decision...and, yes, all the factors involved including murray drafting him and trading a first round pick will come in to play

not sure you can say he is what he is as a starting goalie until he plays a full season in that role...he should end up doing that and in the end murray will need to make a decision...and, yes, all the factors involved including murray drafting him and trading a first round pick will come in to play
- Michael Pachla

The implication being that he'll wind up getting markedly better or worse in the next 41 games than the first 41?

I think he's good, i just dont think he's irreplaceable like someone who gave up a 1st for him might think.

it comes from the price paid. You dont pay that much for an at the time unproven asset unless you really believe hes the guy. Nobody's "outplayed" him but its worth pointing out that they have put no effort into finding someone who would actually be able to challenge him for that spot, again probably because TM believes hes "the guy".
- Sabresfan-365

What else should they be doing? They just invested a first round pick in the guy. Of course they're going to treat him as the #1 and look for anyone else to fill that role until after they know how he will perform as the #1.

The Lehner dispute is dizzying. First he sucked because he couldn't stay healthy enough to play 50 games. Now because they are playing him in that many games, it's a conspiracy because they're not letting anybody else play the position for the next foreseeable future.

Why is everything always best explained as the result of a dramatic mistake, rather than logical decision making?

Murray likes Bobby Ryan, just sayin.

i'm not taking it as Lehner or bust, but I do think that giving him a full season as the no. 1 goalie will give everyone a good indication as to what his makeup is in that role
- Michael Pachla

This is his full season. He doesn't lead the team to the playoffs or at least put up top 10 or 15 goalie numbers then move on.

The implication being that he'll wind up getting markedly better or worse in the next 41 games than the first 41?

I think he's good, i just dont think he's irreplaceable like someone who gave up a 1st for him might think.
- Sabresfan-365

tbh, i'm not so sure he's the answer...and if they move on from him than so be it...am I mad that they plunked down a first rounder for him?...i'm not happy about it, but I understand why he did it

What else should they be doing? They just invested a first round pick in the guy. Of course they're going to treat him as the #1 and look for anyone else to fill that role until after they know how he will perform as the #1.

The Lehner dispute is dizzying. First he sucked because he couldn't stay healthy enough to play 50 games. Now because they are playing him in that many games, it's a conspiracy because they're not letting anybody else play the position for the next foreseeable future.

Why is everything always best explained as the result of a dramatic mistake, rather than logical decision making?
- Der Kaiser

That is the troubling part.

Again he doesn't suck, i think he's good. But he's not "we've completely solved our goaltending for the future and there's no point in even discussing it" good.

What else should they be doing? They just invested a first round pick in the guy. Of course they're going to treat him as the #1 and look for anyone else to fill that role until after they know how he will perform as the #1.

The Lehner dispute is dizzying. First he sucked because he couldn't stay healthy enough to play 50 games. Now because they are playing him in that many games, it's a conspiracy because they're not letting anybody else play the position for the next foreseeable future.

Why is everything always best explained as the result of a dramatic mistake, rather than logical decision making?
- Der Kaiser

Murray likes Bobby Ryan, just sayin.
- SABRES 89

do you?

This is his full season. He doesn't lead the team to the playoffs or at least put up top 10 or 15 goalie numbers then move on.
- bluengold12

If Lehner winds up in the bottom half of the league statistically - and that's something I can see happening - I think Murray needs to make a real move to improve to the position.

And I think he will. I haven't seen anything in his tenure so far that suggests he is the kind to double a mistake by refusing to change once he sees he's wrong. Nor do I see him as being unable to see when he's made a mistake.

do you?
- Michael Pachla

I do but not at 7.5 a year unless we can off load a contract or 2 on the Sens.

If Lehner winds up in the bottom half of the league statistically - and that's something I can see happening - I think Murray needs to make a real move to improve to the position.

And I think he will. I haven't seen anything in his tenure so far that suggests he is the kind to double a mistake by refusing to change once he sees he's wrong. Nor do I see him as being unable to see when he's made a mistake.
- Der Kaiser

Has he moved on from any of the guys he swung and missed on? I guess time will tell but the impression i get is he's going to stick by those guys.

That is the troubling part.

Again he doesn't suck, i think he's good. But he's not "we've completely solved our goaltending for the future and there's no point in even discussing it" good.
- Sabresfan-365

So the Lehner trade is for you what the Kane trade is for others. Unforgivable and suggestive that nothing will ever be done right thereafter.

I do but not at 7.5 a year unless we can off load a contract or 2 on the Sens.
- SABRES 89

do you have word that the sens are looking to unload him?

What else should they be doing? They just invested a first round pick in the guy. Of course they're going to treat him as the #1 and look for anyone else to fill that role until after they know how he will perform as the #1.

The Lehner dispute is dizzying. First he sucked because he couldn't stay healthy enough to play 50 games. Now because they are playing him in that many games, it's a conspiracy because they're not letting anybody else play the position for the next foreseeable future.

Why is everything always best explained as the result of a dramatic mistake, rather than logical decision making?
- Der Kaiser

For me it's a combination of both. He couldn't stay healthy last year. That's a fact. This year he's mainly been healthy enough to play but clearly still battling some injuries as he often misses practices because of "maintenance" as Bylsma puts it. So clearly he's still not playing at 100%

As for the playing time conspiracy. I think during the middle stretch of this season thus far where we went on that bad losing skid Lehner just wasn't showing starting caliber talent. At times he has looked good this year but he is not very good one on one when the shooter has a point blank shot on him I'm always expecting him to get scored on. Shootouts are another problem as he has looked like a cardboard cut out in them. I'm not saying he's not the guy but I'd like to go with the hot hand more so then just sticking with Lehner. Nillson has had some shaky games too. Not discrediting that. Just would like to go with you win the game you start the next one scenario for a bit. See how that works for awhile.

So the Lehner trade is for you what the Kane trade is for others. Unforgivable and suggestive that nothing will ever be done right thereafter.
- Der Kaiser

Incredibly concerning, not unforgivable.


However, you mentioned that you haven't seen anything that would suggest TM would double down on a mistake? I believe (although this is unofficial) that he was the guy who selected Cowen and then chose to extend him to an awful contract.


I admit the Lehner trade may be my version of the kane trade for others simply because of my views on goaltending. I can absolutely forgive him for it though, if he makes moves etc.

Has he moved on from any of the guys he swung and missed on? I guess time will tell but the impression i get is he's going to stick by those guys.
- Sabresfan-365

He's also proven for the most part, he wants his guys, his picks. Petersen wasn't his pick.

Also, There are a ton a stats that say Lehner is incredibly average to below average. Especially in saving high danger scoring chances.

Time will tell, but I don't think we win much with Lehner as the #1.

Has he moved on from any of the guys he swung and missed on? I guess time will tell but the impression i get is he's going to stick by those guys.
- Sabresfan-365

It's difficult because with Bogosian the guy is essentially untradable. Very high cap hit for a 4th best defenceman at most. He's also got a few years left on said deal and he is very very injury prone and I believe also has a no movement clause that kicks in after this season.
Kane has more or less been somewhat successful.
The Deslauries/Fasching for McNabb trade has so far been a flop but if Fasching can prove to be a steady bottom 6 guy in the NHL in a year or two maybe we can win that one.
O'Riley deal has been very good thus far although I would've loved to keep McGinn and or Compher.
Lehner is the only other guy he's really stuck his neck out for. Let's see what he does with him after the year ends.

He's also proven for the most part, he wants his guys, his picks. Petersen wasn't his pick.

Also, There are a ton a stats that say Lehner is incredibly average to below average. Especially in saving high danger scoring chances.

Time will tell, but I don't think we win much with Lehner as the #1.
- sbroads24

grant over schaller is one...

what are the others?

do you have word that the sens are looking to unload him?
- Michael Pachla

Murray had interest in him when he first got here before and after the Miller deal, don't know if he is still serious about him. Guy Boucher for some reason doesn't seem to be a fan of his. I've always thought Ryan has very good potential he just seems lazy at times. Once again, his contract isn't very friendly unless you can off load a contract for him.

Has he moved on from any of the guys he swung and missed on? I guess time will tell but the impression i get is he's going to stick by those guys.
- Sabresfan-365

How would you have him move on? Snap his fingers? If you believe Kane was a miss there were rumours that he shopped him. I know you think Bogo and Gorges are laughable, how does he trade such clowns?

He put together the team he wanted for this year. (I don't think he got the LHD he wanted, and settled for Kuli.). I also believe he's taking notes as the year reveals its strengths and weaknesses, and will start retooling where he doesn't like the results.

I think we'll learn in the next month whether it's a TDL retool or work for the offseason.

good god


if player x is drafted by the bills, and does not want to sign with the bills, he must sit out a year

if player y is drafted by the cleveland indians and does not want to sign with them, he must sit out a year

if player z is drafted by the knicks and does not want to sign with them he must sit out a year


just because an 18 year old wants to go to college, and can't sign while he is in school, he should have to sit out a year once he is done with school if he does not want to sign with the team that drafts him
- homiedclown

But that is straight pros drafting college (already in college and forgo the rest of college to enter draft, hockey is different). Totally different, no need for attitude, it is not the same.

Murray had interest in him when he first got here before and after the Miller deal, don't know if he is still serious about him. Guy Boucher for some reason doesn't seem to be a fan of his. I've always thought Ryan has very good potential he just seems lazy at times. Once again, his contract isn't very friendly unless you can off load a contract for him.
- SABRES 89

am of the opinion that murray moved on from ryan after being able to land Okposo...possible?