If they could amend the way it works I think it should go something like this.

If a player (regardless of age) were to suffer a career ending injury that has been declared by 3 separate and unaffiliated docs as in fact career ending (player is no longer fit to play for health reasons), that player should continue to be fully compensated by the team in which he is currently employed, however, he should be removed from their active roster and his cap hit should no longer be counted towards the teams cap limit. Upon conclusion of said contract, player must retire.

Player still gets paid.
Team gets cap relief
Circumvention of the cap floor ceases to exist.

So perfect that no changes are need whatsoever?
- jak521

The only thing that I think needs to be changed, and that I don't like, is how a team has to work the roster coming out of training camp, to maximize LTIR cap space. I can't wrap my head around what the purpose is of that. I think it should work then, the same as it does during the season. For example, if the cap is 73M, and a team has a player that is not going to play all season, that has a cap hit of 4M, then their Upper Limit should essentially be 77M coming out of training camp for compliance purposes.

I've seen those at games

Then again there are a lot of Rico jerseys too.

My jersey collection is an odd mix.

Desjardins
McGillis
VanRiemsdyk
Simmonds
Gostisbehere
Giroux (50th)

Soon to be added
Provorov (Stadium)
Konecny
- dragonoffrost

Mike Richards orange
90/2000's White blank.
2000's black blank.

I keep flip flopping on who I want to get on the back of my white. Lindros, LeClair, Coffey, Roenick, Howe.

With the black...Roenick, Forsberg, Gagne, LeClair.

If they could amend the way it works I think it should go something like this.

If a player (regardless of age) were to suffer a career ending injury that has been declared by 3 separate and unaffiliated docs as in fact career ending (player is no longer fit to play for health reasons), that player should continue to be fully compensated by the team in which he is currently employed, however, he should be removed from their active roster and his cap hit should no longer be counted towards the teams cap limit. Upon conclusion of said contract, player must retire.

Player still gets paid.
Team gets cap relief
Circumvention of the cap floor ceases to exist.
- jak521

The salary cap itself is circumvented.

The salary cap itself is circumvented.
- MJL

Not by design, but as a result of an injury.

You cant plan for a "career-ending" injury.

That is less a circumvention than an unfortunate event.

Maybe keep a 35 and over cap recapture clause in the event of an injury.

Guys at 35 shouldnt be getting 8 year deals anyway...

Not by design, but as a result of an injury.

You cant plan for a "career-ending" injury.

That is less a circumvention than an unfortunate event.

Maybe keep a 35 and over cap recapture clause in the event of an injury.

Guys at 35 shouldnt be getting 8 year deals anyway...
- jak521

Doesn't matter if it was by design or not. Or planned. What is the salary cap for?

Cap recapture has nothing to do with an injured player. 35 and over contracts have nothing to do with LTIR or an injured player.

The salary cap itself is circumvented.
- MJL

Because of a totally unforseeable circumstance that should have been better ruled on when the cap was implemented.

Vinny was a great player for TB. I just was worried he'd be what he was here.
- dragonoffrost

Haha I'll never forget I was in London at the time of the signing announcement and I was drunk at a pub and got an ESPN update and started screaming and no one knew who the hell i was celebrating over. "Who the (frank) is Vinny?!"

Doesn't matter if it was by design or not. Or planned. What is the salary cap for?

Cap recapture has nothing to do with an injured player. 35 and over contracts have nothing to do with LTIR or an injured player.
- MJL

Ask the NFL where a contract can be voided by the team at any point yet they have a cap?

Because of a totally unforseeable circumstance that should have been better ruled on when the cap was implemented.
- dragonoffrost

I'm still waiting for a reason why it should've been better ruled on. Career ending injuries are part of the sport.

Ask the NFL where a contract can be voided by the team at any point yet they have a cap?
- dragonoffrost

We're dealing with the NHL CBA here, not the NFL.

Does the NFL have Cap recapture written into it's CBA? How about an over 35 rule?

We're dealing with the NHL CBA here, not the NFL.
- MJL

It points out what the (frank) is a cap is a horrible question as the design of any salary cap is done to get salary costs kept to a set point. Yet other leagues found a way to include injury exemptions on the cap.

Hell most contracts are insured so the team still has cost constraints for an unforeseen injury.

No CBA is going to be 100% perfect. There's always the human element to the negotiations which means things will be left out and can be corrected in future negotiations.

Doesn't matter if it was by design or not. Or planned. What is the salary cap for?

Cap recapture has nothing to do with an injured player. 35 and over contracts have nothing to do with LTIR or an injured player.
- MJL

It doesnt matter to you.

Many people feel that exact opposite. I completely understand how the cap recapture clause works, I was saying that it could be implemented with rule changes to LTIR and "forced retirement" (career ending injuries) as a way to discourage teams from signing older players to longer deals (something they want to limit anyway).

Here's a question for ya..

What happens if an active player dies?

I'd probably have some older ones but I couldn't get a jersey until I could buy it myself.

Tocchet, Howe, and McCrimmon would probably be added. I'll have to look about getting a throwback for Howe if it's possible.
- dragonoffrost

I loved Howe....not sure why I never got one. Same with Poulin and Hexy. I guess back then after all the money I paid for my season tickets I couldn't buy too many jerseys

That's obvious, just asking what the issue is? It works perfectly for what it is designed to do.
- MJL

I don't like penalizing a team when the contract was in good faith. Not talking about contracts that circumvented the cap. Pronger, Savard and even a guy like Horton were signed with intent to play out their deals. they didn't just wake up one day and say I don't feel like playing anymore. I personally feel like the player should be able to get their money but also retire and get off the books when its a career ending injury and not have the charade of trading contracts to help teams get to the floor.

Vinny was a great player for TB. I just was worried he'd be what he was here.
- dragonoffrost

I still feel when it came to Vinny, we could have made it work if he wanted to. The problem with Vinny, yeah, not a great skater and the system demands that you be able to skate. With Vinny being gone, I don't think our system fits every player on this roster.

Keep in mind, LA isn't a bad nor stupidly managed team. They did what they could with Vinny and it's not like he did absolutely nothing.

If they could amend the way it works I think it should go something like this.

If a player (regardless of age) were to suffer a career ending injury that has been declared by 3 separate and unaffiliated docs as in fact career ending (player is no longer fit to play for health reasons), that player should continue to be fully compensated by the team in which he is currently employed, however, he should be removed from their active roster and his cap hit should no longer be counted towards the teams cap limit. Upon conclusion of said contract, player must retire.

Player still gets paid.
Team gets cap relief
Circumvention of the cap floor ceases to exist.
- jak521

exactly how i feel

I don't like penalizing a team when the contract was in good faith. Not talking about contracts that circumvented the cap. Pronger, Savard and even a guy like Horton were signed with intent to play out their deals. they didn't just wake up one day and say I don't feel like playing anymore. I personally feel like the player should be able to get their money but also retire and get off the books when its a career ending injury and not have the charade of trading contracts to help teams get to the floor.
- nastyflyergirl

I don't like penalizing a team when the contract was in good faith. Not talking about contracts that circumvented the cap. Pronger, Savard and even a guy like Horton were signed with intent to play out their deals. they didn't just wake up one day and say I don't feel like playing anymore. I personally feel like the player should be able to get their money but also retire and get off the books when its a career ending injury and not have the charade of trading contracts to help teams get to the floor.
- nastyflyergirl

Agree 100%

It points out what the (frank) is a cap is a horrible question as the design of any salary cap is done to get salary costs kept to a set point. Yet other leagues found a way to include injury exemptions on the cap.

Hell most contracts are insured so the team still has cost constraints for an unforeseen injury.

No CBA is going to be 100% perfect. There's always the human element to the negotiations which means things will be left out and can be corrected in future negotiations.
- dragonoffrost

I think the Pronger situation is unique. New rules do not allow teams to construct a contract the way the Flyers did that one. So, teams have less incentive to sign older players to long contracts.

The league had it in for the Flyers as soon as they signed that contract. The last two or three years of the contract Prongers actual pay was like $450K per season. Why weren't the Flyers allowed to pay the rest of the money and allow Pronger to retire? He was obviously not going to play anymore.

It is doubly annoying when you see how the Kings were able to get out of the Richards and Voynov contracts. I know different circumstances but....

- jak521

Agreed.

- jak521

you worded it better but get out of my head

It points out what the (frank) is a cap is a horrible question as the design of any salary cap is done to get salary costs kept to a set point. Yet other leagues found a way to include injury exemptions on the cap.

Hell most contracts are insured so the team still has cost constraints for an unforeseen injury.

No CBA is going to be 100% perfect. There's always the human element to the negotiations which means things will be left out and can be corrected in future negotiations.
- dragonoffrost

A team is only required to obtain insurance on it's top 5 contracts. The NHL has an injury exemption built in on the cap. It's called LTIR.

They've already corrected some of the things that they felt was not done right, with adding cap recapture.

I think the Pronger situation is unique. New rules do not allow teams to construct a contract the way the Flyers did that one. So, teams have less incentive to sign older players to long contracts.

The league had it in for the Flyers as soon as they signed that contract. The last two or three years of the contract Prongers actual pay was like $450K per season. Why weren't the Flyers allowed to pay the rest of the money and allow Pronger to retire? He was obviously not going to play anymore.

It is doubly annoying when you see how the Kings were able to get out of the Richards and Voynov contracts. I know different circumstances but....
- mickel25

seriously still don't get how they decide some of this stuff.

I think the Pronger situation is unique. New rules do not allow teams to construct a contract the way the Flyers did that one. So, teams have less incentive to sign older players to long contracts.

The league had it in for the Flyers as soon as they signed that contract. The last two or three years of the contract Prongers actual pay was like $450K per season. Why weren't the Flyers allowed to pay the rest of the money and allow Pronger to retire? He was obviously not going to play anymore.

It is doubly annoying when you see how the Kings were able to get out of the Richards and Voynov contracts. I know different circumstances but....
- mickel25

There's more than Pronger in that case. I think Horton, Clarkson, and Savard all fit also.