I'm going to ignore this bc I don't care. You are trying to discredit me putting up with watching the avs games and seeing zads play and doing all the smart plays he does now. Of course they will have bad numbers they are a bad team with awful goal tending.

He's been good, a bright spot on a terrible team. Those don't show up with possession numbers. Seeing Patrick Kane get trucked by him one shift then the next willing cough up the puck to him bc he does not want to come down his side again

Honestly dude I like ya but this Is the kind of crap that pisses me off the most. Another fan base trying to prove someone wrong by posting advance stats. Those numbers are a snap shot in time and don't tell the whole story
- DDM-Coga

I don't see how that's trying to discredit you at all. I immediately followed the numbers that don't paint him in a good light by saying that I'd withhold judgement until I've watched more Avs games (which I'll make an effort to do).

I admitted I don't have the whole picture and as such left the discussion open to you sharing your own comments on the matter. Those comments will allow me to know what I'm looking for to see his strengths and then any weaknesses I witness will have to balance out. Perhaps I didn't word it perfectly, but you ought to know by now that I don't jump on other teams like that. I'm in it to deepen, correct and quantify my opinions.

With that having now been said, is there anything else I should look for as signs that he's playing top-4 hockey? I'll be watching the next few Avs games and then some more once Johnson is back.

been meaning to ask;

are the devils actually missing larssons defensive play?
or is it just a narrative being thrown around by those who want to cast aspersions on hall and the true equality of the trade?

is the simple cause and affect that devils are still struggling and the trade didnt change their fortunes much way over simplified?
- HB77

Hall has been very good, he's elevated Zajacs game to a point we haven't seen since he centered Kovy and Parise. Hall is also just about a PPG player on a once again poor offensive team.

We all know the minutes Larsson played last year and how well he played them. It definitely hurts to try and replace those minutes with Lovejoy/ Moore who let's face it, could be replaced by AHLers.

I think you have to look behind the bench though. The Devils unloaded Farnham, Ruutu, Tootoo, etc. and brought in more offensive minded players like Bennett, Parenteau and obviously Hall. Yet they are still bottom of the league in shots for per game and bottom three in goals for. The only difference is now they also get caved in defensively as well.

Either the bench has been tuned out or the game plan isn't working. I get that they have a terrible defense. But adding the forwards they have, including a full season of Zacha and they are worse? Even Cory is off this year.

I'm pissy bc I get retards like alfie trying to trade for Avs players now and blue jacket fans trolling like they just one the cup. What world am I living in now?
- DDM-Coga

The world we endured for 7 years?

I'm going to ignore this bc I don't care. You are trying to discredit me putting up with watching the avs games and seeing zads play and doing all the smart plays he does now. Of course they will have bad numbers they are a bad team with awful goal tending.

He's been good, a bright spot on a terrible team. Those don't show up with possession numbers. Seeing Patrick Kane get trucked by him one shift then the next willing cough up the puck to him bc he does not want to come down his side again

Honestly dude I like ya but this Is the kind of crap that pisses me off the most. Another fan base trying to prove someone wrong by posting advance stats. Those numbers are a snap shot in time and don't tell the whole story
- DDM-Coga

I LOVE THIS

absolutely cannot be quantified but ill bet anything it was a HUGE factor in the story of the game from that point on. marginalized the effectiveness of the best player on the ice for either team. no number can explain that

Hall has been very good, he's elevated Zajacs game to a point we haven't seen since he centered Kovy and Parise. Hall is also just about a PPG player on a once again poor offensive team.

We all know the minutes Larsson played last year and how well he played them. It definitely hurts to try and replace those minutes with Lovejoy/ Moore who let's face it, could be replaced by AHLers.

I think you have to look behind the bench though. The Devils unloaded Farnham, Ruutu, Tootoo, etc. and brought in more offensive minded players like Bennett, Parenteau and obviously Hall. Yet they are still bottom of the league in shots for per game and bottom three in goals for. The only difference is now they also get caved in defensively as well.

Either the bench has been tuned out or the game plan isn't working. I get that they have a terrible defense. But adding the forwards they have, including a full season of Zacha and they are worse? Even Cory is off this year.
- Mr.Bobby

I mentioned the trend a number of times throughout the year after people were commenting on how the Devils were the same defensively after 10 or so games as they were last year (2.2ish GA/game). After that, I kept closer tabs on them only to see that number drop dramatically. I think the trickle-down effect has a lot more impact than most people give it credit for. Having Larsson sheltered weaker guys from those minutes who you now have to play in those minutes.

I LOVE THIS

absolutely cannot be quantified but ill bet anything it was a HUGE factor in the story of the game from that point on. marginalized the effectiveness of the best player on the ice for either team. no number can explain that
- HB77

And yet at the same time, one event doesn't nullify a history of events. It's important to not take stats out of context or as absolute law, but it's equally important to not let one or a few events cloud the view of a player. Kris Russell is a prime example.

been meaning to ask;

are the devils actually missing larssons defensive play?
or is it just a narrative being thrown around by those who want to cast aspersions on hall and the true equality of the trade?

is the simple cause and affect that devils are still struggling and the trade didnt change their fortunes much way over simplified?
- HB77

Smelly covered it. Their defense is evidently struggling.

Hall has been very good, he's elevated Zajacs game to a point we haven't seen since he centered Kovy and Parise. Hall is also just about a PPG player on a once again poor offensive team.

We all know the minutes Larsson played last year and how well he played them. It definitely hurts to try and replace those minutes with Lovejoy/ Moore who let's face it, could be replaced by AHLers.

I think you have to look behind the bench though. The Devils unloaded Farnham, Ruutu, Tootoo, etc. and brought in more offensive minded players like Bennett, Parenteau and obviously Hall. Yet they are still bottom of the league in shots for per game and bottom three in goals for. The only difference is now they also get caved in defensively as well.

Either the bench has been tuned out or the game plan isn't working. I get that they have a terrible defense. But adding the forwards they have, including a full season of Zacha and they are worse? Even Cory is off this year.
- Mr.Bobby

well said

but yeah, you wont see any fingers pointed in halls direction from me. one of the games best talents and an elite winger.
a huge loss for our franchise even if the organization just couldnt wait any longer to make a deal.

larsson has really grown on me and is a solid solid defender (lacks any real offensive flair- but ill take the simple play dump out over the alternative any day) but we lost the trade on pure value. and while we're a playoff contending decent team, i dont think we ever get to that truly elite level without somehow adding another player of that ilk (maybe puju? maybe duchene )

And yet at the same time, one event doesn't nullify a history of events. It's important to not take stats out of context or as absolute law, but it's equally important to not let one or a few events cloud the view of a player. Kris Russell is a prime example.
- MaximumBone

to be fair- he was pretty implicit that hes watched zadarov be a bright spot on the worst team in the league all year.
and made some some clear indications of why his numbers might be poor.

honestly, i know very little about zadarov. saw him abit in junior, saw him overwhelmed a few times as a sabre. and a couple times barely noticed him as an av.
im just able to see the logic in the argument that hes been good.
whether hes right or biased or not is another story

I don't see how that's trying to discredit you at all. I immediately followed the numbers that don't paint him in a good light by saying that I'd withhold judgement until I've watched more Avs games (which I'll make an effort to do).

I admitted I don't have the whole picture and as such left the discussion open to you sharing your own comments on the matter. Those comments will allow me to know what I'm looking for to see his strengths and then any weaknesses I witness will have to balance out. Perhaps I didn't word it perfectly, but you ought to know by now that I don't jump on other teams like that. I'm in it to deepen, correct and quantify my opinions.

With that having now been said, is there anything else I should look for as signs that he's playing top-4 hockey? I'll be watching the next few Avs games and then some more once Johnson is back.
- MaximumBone

discrediting might be the wrong phrase but Zads is better than his stats show. He is legit and right now his level of play doesnt reflect his cf% 5v5

The world we endured for 7 years?
- MaximumBone

now this jacket fan is claiming that I have been trolling their thread for years.

What the (frank)?

to be fair- he was pretty implicit that hes watched zadarov be a bright spot on the worst team in the league all year.
and made some some clear indications of why his numbers might be poor.

honestly, i know very little about zadarov. saw him abit in junior, saw him overwhelmed a few times as a sabre. and a couple times barely noticed him as an av.
im just able to see the logic in the argument that hes been good.
whether hes right or biased or not is another story
- HB77

Bright spots can be as bright as they want, but it needs to be consistently bright. Remember when Smid was our 2nd best Dman and the Smid- Petry pairing was our "bright spot"? How about the bright spot that was Lander's second half emergence under Nelson? That's the point I failed to get across.

Bright spots can be as bright as they want, but it needs to be consistently bright. Remember when Smid was our 2nd best Dman and the Smid- Petry pairing was our "bright spot"? How about the bright spot that was Lander's second half emergence under Nelson? That's the point I failed to get across.
- MaximumBone

Hes 21 and emerging, thats my point. Seeing him last year vs this year, especially since EJ has been hurt, he has been more of an impact and gaining confidence.

He is maturing and giving the Avs fan base hope that this kid is going to be a legit Top pairing Dman. He won't have the offensive upside, but he is big, mean, hits like a truck, and can skate. And he is using all those tools. Still has his lapses as a 21 year old Dman does, but there are periods of hockey or stretch of games that you just go ohhhh yeah thats my boy Zads, bring the pain

I see you dildos are having some fun. You both know that Snow/PC would screw any trade up somehow.
- Mr.Bobby

Sounds like someone's ass just got cinched right up.

discrediting might be the wrong phrase but Zads is better than his stats show. He is legit and right now his level of play doesnt reflect his cf% 5v5
- DDM-Coga

pretty impressive stretch no doubt, but the jackets are one of those aterthought teams. dont hate them. dont love them. just dont care.

his response of you trolling is like one of those trump retorts.
blurt out the first stinger that comes to mind when challenged. doesnt matter if theres an ounce of validity or rationality to it. just seemed like a good comeback at the time.
gives the appearance of being able to think quickly on your feet, but its actually quite the opposite

that one flames fan retorted with me being a notorious racist in other threads as a comeback!!! holy eff.

another circle jerk flames fan pzoxic or whatever the fuk his empty headed name is commented that he routinely "destroys me" in debates!!??

clowns

I mentioned the trend a number of times throughout the year after people were commenting on how the Devils were the same defensively after 10 or so games as they were last year (2.2ish GA/game). After that, I kept closer tabs on them only to see that number drop dramatically. I think the trickle-down effect has a lot more impact than most people give it credit for. Having Larsson sheltered weaker guys from those minutes who you now have to play in those minutes.
- MaximumBone

I agree with this, and I think you remember most Devils fans loved getting Hall after being starved offensively, but none were thrilled with losing Larsson.

Replacing Larsson and Schlemko with Lovejoy and Moore in the top 4 has been disastrous.

I agree with this, and I think you remember most Devils fans loved getting Hall after being starved offensively, but none were thrilled with losing Larsson.

Replacing Larsson and Schlemko with Lovejoy and Moore in the top 4 has been disastrous.
- Mr.Bobby

Seems like you need more Beauchemin

Seems like you need more Beauchemin
- DDM-Coga

Only if you agree to reunite Merrill with Gelly.

The world we endured for 7 years?
- MaximumBone

7 years?

Pfffft. Piece of cake, rookie.

Love,
Leafs fans.

7 years?

Pfffft. Piece of cake, rookie.

Love,
Leafs fans.
- Aetherial

Uncle Lou will make the Leafs great again.

Am I wrong? Might be. I just commented off Jero's post.
- Oildrum

NOT my fault your stupid ass didnt open the link.

Very sad to hear that Cloutier has passed. He was and always will be my favorite blogger. The perfect amount of insight and humor in every blog he wrote. I looked forward to reading every time he wrote one.

Also , i will up the ante and predict not only a playoff berth but a top 3 finish in the division.
- Oildrum

Jess H Christ youre a moron.

NOT my fault your stupid ass didnt open the link.
- Larsson_fan

Where you been?

No ones called me bubba in a while.

Where you been?

No ones called me bubba in a while.
- smellmyfinger

Well they banned me for those middle finger gifs, then on my first day back I used the G word to describe EdmHockeySpazz....got another...how it is around Here i suppose.

Well they banned me for those middle finger gifs, then on my first day back I used the G word to describe EdmHockeySpazz....got another...how it is around Here i suppose.
- Larsson_fan

Hey Jman

whats shaking