Id argue Kadri is more valuable NOW, long term, than JvR is.

He's been solid on D and suffocating #1 centers on the other team. JVR is a great scorer from in close, but we have the new trio of Nylander/Marner/Matthews that can help carry the load in his absence.

The only way JvR gets moved is for a top 2 d-man, and stop saying this player isnt worth that player, this isnt EA sports, there's packages that can be made, and it all depends on the needs of the team.

Leafs arent desperate for a d-man but do need one. Islanders for example are desperate for someone to play with Tavares or else he's done with that team and leaving at the end of the year. Colorado is too far gone imo to be "desperate" since at this point, they look like they need everything...like 12 new players.
- Buggy166

JVR alone isn't going to get you a top-2 Dman. I think Chia soiled the waters on that kind of hope with the Hall/Larsson deal.

Tavares still has another year after this season before his contract expires, so simmer down. Also can't see NYI going for JVR this year as their playoff hopes are pretty much gone at this point. Don't think they're as desperate right now for that winger to play with Tavares (they tried with Ladd, I guess, but should've never let Okposo go, obviously). They still have some pretty promising young guys coming up in their system and could make a bounce back next year. They'll likely be sellers this year, not buyers. Maybe next year tho.

Might as well ask for Kane and Towes for any top 4 d-man in the league.

Lets trade a 2nd line center and a 1st line power forward for a #2-4 dman...totally makes sense.
- Buggy166

Did you just compare Toews to Kadri and Kane to JVR!?!?!

Flames don't really want it to happen. That's why it'll a be Marner. Toronto is the one desperate for D.
- Razzdazzle1

Toronto isn't desperate for D.

Management knows this is still the early days of the rebuild.

Did you just compare Toews to Kadri and Kane to JVR!?!?!
- GstrangWondah

Poor man's Toews and Kane

I could see JVR going to NYI as he is from the area, and except for last year always healthy.

Kadri is a valuable asset to the leafs, would take more than Hamilton!

Adding Hamonic and Hamilton would shore up the D pretty nicely!
- Bullot

If it took an elite winger (Hall) to get a top-4 defensive Dman (Larsson), you're nuts to think that a #2C is going to get you a top 2D+

If it took an elite winger (Hall) to get a top-4 defensive Dman (Larsson), you're nuts to think that a #2C is going to get you a top 2D+
- GstrangWondah

I tbink we can all agree that Edmonton got bent over the trade table on that one.

But your point is still valid.

Ecklund's rumours are just *insert big name player from team that's doing bad* for Shattenkirk, Hamilton, Jvr, Fleury, Bishop, Doan

Ecklund's rumours are just *insert big name player from team that's doing bad* for Shattenkirk, Hamilton, Jvr, Fleury, Bishop, Doan
- Discourse_

And yet here you are.

Toronto isn't desperate for D.

Management knows this is still the early days of the rebuild.
- Atomic Wedgie

Agreed. Toronto isn't desperate at all. Puts them in a position of strength in trade talks.

Agreed. Toronto isn't desperate at all. Puts them in a position of strength in trade talks.
- GstrangWondah

I don't see the Leafs trading for D until after the expansion draft.

I don't see the Leafs trading for D until after the expansion draft.
- Atomic Wedgie

tbh, i don't see much trading at all until after the expansion draft. that and the cap pretty much limits things.

If it took an elite winger (Hall) to get a top-4 defensive Dman (Larsson), you're nuts to think that a #2C is going to get you a top 2D+
- GstrangWondah

I agree that Kadri alone wouldn't get Hamilton but I wish that everyone would stop using the Hall/Larsson trade as a benchmark for value. Most people thought at the time that trade was a massive overpayment on Chia's part & I personally still do. I don't think that it can or will be like that on every trade going forward. The other thing is that with expansion, teams with lots of quality d-men (Anaheim, Minny, Nashville) will not be able to protect everyone so may be looking to move players now for less than value so that they don't lose them for nothing later.

Value for Hamilton is a less than the 15th, 45th, and 52 pick Calgary traded to get him. His value has gone down not up.

JVR/Kadri does not equal a 15th, 45th, and 52.
Marner does not equal a 15th, 45th, and 52.
Value is way way less.

Anyway, Hamilton is not coming to Toronto because Burke loves his dmen as the foundation of his build. Hamilton is his guy, just like Phaneuf was his guy in Toronto.

Value for Hamilton is a less than the 15th, 45th, and 52 pick Calgary traded to get him. His value has gone down not up.

JVR/Kadri does not equal a 15th, 45th, and 52.
Marner does not equal a 15th, 45th, and 52.
Value is way way less.

Anyway, Hamilton is not coming to Toronto because Burke loves his dmen as the foundation of his build. Hamilton is his guy, just like Phaneuf was his guy in Toronto.
- B-Wforever

If only the invisible hand of the economy would stay still for once.

Wait, does that mean Kessel is still worth Seguin, Hamilton, and Knight??

Get'r done, Rutherford!

Toronto isn't desperate for D.

Management knows this is still the early days of the rebuild.
- Atomic Wedgie

it's 48 years into the rebuild


how is that early?



I kid I kid

I don't see the Leafs trading for D until after the expansion draft.
- Atomic Wedgie

you can have franson, gorges and bogo for a back of used pucks after the trade freeze

If only the invisible hand of the economy would stay still for once.

Wait, does that mean Kessel is still worth Seguin, Hamilton, and Knight??

Get'r done, Rutherford!
- fry

No.

When his value dropped (hint!) the leafs asked for a more reasonable return and got
Nick Spaling, forward Kasperi Kapanen, defenceman Scott Harrington, plus first- and third-round picks from 2016 for Kessel.

it's 48 years into the rebuild


how is that early?



I kid I kid
- homiedclown

Everyone knows you add D in year 49 of a 50 year rebuild.

Quit being such a clown, Homie.

you can have franson, gorges and bogo for a back of used pucks after the trade freeze
- homiedclown

I fear that Tanner will accept this trade, on behalf of Leafs fans.

it's 48 years into the rebuild


how is that early?



I kid I kid
- homiedclown

I agree with this without keeeeeding

No.

When his value dropped (hint!) the leafs asked for a more reasonable return and got
Nick Spaling, forward Kasperi Kapanen, defenceman Scott Harrington, plus first- and third-round picks from 2016 for Kessel.

- B-Wforever

A fine return. How has Hamilton's value dropped? Other than being involved in Leafs rumours? He looks great this year.

Could one argue that the market has moved to a point where top two defensemen are more valuable compared to the time when Dougie got traded?

Several GMs stated their dissapointment at not getting a chance to make a better offer than the Flames.

The Oilers gave a 1st and a 2nd for Griffin Reinhart the same day as the Dougie trade. Does that have any bearing on the value of a defenseman today?

Would it be fair to ask for Hall's value for Dougie just because a similar trade happened recently?

Marner+, baby. It's gonna take Marner+.

What I don't get is why on earth would the Leafs, who should have about 10-15 more points based on their play, and can expect to rise in the standings as the year goes on, would ever consider trading players who are currently good. They have 3 years when their rookies don't make any real money, so there really is no use in building for the future. I hope they don't trade JVR or Kadri.
- James_Tanner

I think this just boils down to who is in the long term plan. JVR is playing great but at the same time his value will never be higher than this year so do you sell high or hold on to him and perhaps trade him as a rental next year?

I agree that Kadri alone wouldn't get Hamilton but I wish that everyone would stop using the Hall/Larsson trade as a benchmark for value. Most people thought at the time that trade was a massive overpayment on Chia's part & I personally still do. I don't think that it can or will be like that on every trade going forward. The other thing is that with expansion, teams with lots of quality d-men (Anaheim, Minny, Nashville) will not be able to protect everyone so may be looking to move players now for less than value so that they don't lose them for nothing later.
- Salami_Tsunami

I hear ya bud, but it is what it is (that's why I said that Chia "soiled the waters"). Everybody agrees that EDM got ripped in that deal, and I doubt we'll see anybody doing anything similiar, but imo it goes to show you the value organizations have for top-4 D, especially young ones such as Hamilton (who's wayyy better than Larsson imo).

Ecklund's rumours are just *insert big name player from team that's doing bad* for Shattenkirk, Hamilton, Jvr, Fleury, Bishop, Doan
- Discourse_

E5

Value for Hamilton is a less than the 15th, 45th, and 52 pick Calgary traded to get him. His value has gone down not up.

JVR/Kadri does not equal a 15th, 45th, and 52.
Marner does not equal a 15th, 45th, and 52.
Value is way way less.

Anyway, Hamilton is not coming to Toronto because Burke loves his dmen as the foundation of his build. Hamilton is his guy, just like Phaneuf was his guy in Toronto.
- B-Wforever

Despite what's been written about him during Calgary's early struggles this year, Hamilton is tied for 9th in the league for scoring by Dmen. His Corsi is pretty solid too (if you care about that kind of thing). His TOI has gone down since moving to CAL, and he's had his struggles, but his production has been consistent and he continues to improve. After all, the guy is 23 years old and hasn't even reached his prime yet. I think if teams were given the option, they'd pay a bit higher of a price than what CAL paid to acquire him.