All goalies have meltdowns and good ones recover. I recall how you called for CC to be replaced and then he came back strong as ever. Mason is every bit as solid as Crawford!
- joegreif17

you quoted the wrong bro

All goalies have meltdowns and good ones recover. I recall how you called for CC to be replaced and then he came back strong as ever. Mason is every bit as solid as Crawford!
- joegreif17

OK.

But I can punctuate, and I've seen Mason melt down enough. Thanks
- John Jaeckel

Probably almost as many times as Corey Crawford! Your opinion on Mason is yours but you are really outnumbered here. The Flyers are an offensive team and very hard on goalies which reflects on their stats. The Flyers young D still makes plenty of mistakes but let me tell you the future looks bright for the D and for Mason.

Probably almost as many times as Corey Crawford! Your opinion on Mason is yours but you are really outnumbered here. The Flyers are an offensive team and very hard on goalies which reflects on their stats. The Flyers young D still makes plenty of mistakes but let me tell you the future looks bright for the D and for Mason.
- joegreif17

dude, do you even know who he is?

no no, you let him tell you, not the other way around.

you're still underrating him and i'm not even here to do this stupid crap.

i know it's hard for you to understand but you can be wrong too.
- kicksave856

Absolutely.

But here's the deal, Stave Mason is not what I would call a mentally strong goalie, and I saw personally how he melted down in Columbus (more closely and more times than you did, I suspect—I was at the games, man, could not stop a beach ball for like two years) and he has certainly been "up and down" in Philly too. Hasn't he?

Sorry, I know Philly fans take umbrage at suggestions like these but his track record as an NHL netminder suggests wild inconsistency and not just for a game or two.

Stats? Stats? Yes, by all means, look at the stats! Like more than just three years worth, because there is a larger body of relevant evidence.

Have a nice day guys, I hope like hell you're right but I don't think he is a Stanley Cup caliber netminder—unless he has a really great team in front of him.

Absolutely.

But here's the deal, Stave Mason is not what I would call a mentally strong goalie, and I saw personally how he melted down in Columbus (more closely and more times than you did, I suspect—I was at the games, man, could not stop a beach ball for like two years) and he has certainly been "up and down" in Philly too. Hasn't he?

Sorry, I know Philly fans take umbrage at suggestions like these but his track record as an NHL netminder suggests wild inconsistency and not just for a game or two.

Stats? Stats? Yes, by all means, look at the stats! Like more than just three years worth, because there is a larger body of relevant evidence.

Have a nice day guys, I hope like hell you're right but I don't think he is a Stanley Cup caliber netminder—unless he has a really great team in front of him.
- John Jaeckel

Hey just wanted to say I actually enjoy your blogs no hard feelings.

OK.
- John Jaeckel

Sorry JJ that sounds sarcastic, lol Honestly Mason has been very solid. Nobody mentioned it but my biggest concern with him is the mysterious injuries he had last year. When healthy and with an improved defence I think he can be a clear cut #1 goaltender. I used to discuss Anti Raanta with you and I used to rave about his potential and it appears he is ready to be a starter anytime soon but he will have to wait till 2018. By that time the Rangers may opt to offer him the future number one when Lundquist slows down or retires. Man I loved Raanta, 18 straight games in Chicago as a starter and still undefeated. Unreal stat

Probably almost as many times as Corey Crawford! Your opinion on Mason is yours but you are really outnumbered here. The Flyers are an offensive team and very hard on goalies which reflects on their stats. The Flyers young D still makes plenty of mistakes but let me tell you the future looks bright for the D and for Mason.
- joegreif17

Yeah, well, outnumbered is not out-evidenced.

Gee, there are a lot of Flyer fans getting their shorts in a wad over Steve Mason, ergo, they must be right. Makes perfect sense. So what else do you want to debate with that logic. Bring it on!

I like a lot of players on the Flyers, said so in the blog, have just seen a LOT of Steve Mason over the years and enough to say, good kid, tries hard, but not mentally tough enough when things go south. Sorry. And yeah, just my opinion. but there is a body of evidence to support it. He has been in the league for more than three years guy.

Hey just wanted to say I actually enjoy your blogs no hard feelings.
- Mordecai

Thanks man, and none on my part toward you (or most of you anyway, haha).

Absolutely.

But here's the deal, Stave Mason is not what I would call a mentally strong goalie, and I saw personally how he melted down in Columbus (more closely and more times than you did, I suspect—I was at the games, man, could not stop a beach ball for like two years) and he has certainly been "up and down" in Philly too. Hasn't he?

Sorry, I know Philly fans take umbrage at suggestions like these but his track record as an NHL netminder suggests wild inconsistency and not just for a game or two.

Stats? Stats? Yes, by all means, look at the stats! Like more than just three years worth, because there is a larger body of relevant evidence.

Have a nice day guys, I hope like hell you're right but I don't think he is a Stanley Cup caliber netminder—unless he has a really great team in front of him.
- John Jaeckel

HaHa you mean like A. Niemi,

Absolutely.

But here's the deal, Stave Mason is not what I would call a mentally strong goalie, and I saw personally how he melted down in Columbus (more closely and more times than you did, I suspect—I was at the games, man, could not stop a beach ball for like two years) and he has certainly been "up and down" in Philly too. Hasn't he?

Sorry, I know Philly fans take umbrage at suggestions like these but his track record as an NHL netminder suggests wild inconsistency and not just for a game or two.

Stats? Stats? Yes, by all means, look at the stats! Like more than just three years worth, because there is a larger body of relevant evidence.

Have a nice day guys, I hope like hell you're right but I don't think he is a Stanley Cup caliber netminder—unless he has a really great team in front of him.
- John Jaeckel

you shouldn't generalize about fans. especially you.

also, the huet thing you said is dumb. i don't need to write 5 paragraphs about it. it was dumb. when you know you're right you only have to say things once, maybe twice. then there are the people who have to argue every point they make for some reason.

HaHa you mean like A. Niemi,
- joegreif17

Yeah, well, outnumbered is not out-evidenced.

Gee, there are a lot of Flyer fans getting their shorts in a wad over Steve Mason, ergo, they must be right. Makes perfect sense. So what else do you want to debate with that logic. Bring it on!

I like a lot of players on the Flyers, said so in the blog, have just seen a LOT of Steve Mason over the years and enough to say, good kid, tries hard, but not mentally tough enough when things go south. Sorry. And yeah, just my opinion. but there is a body of evidence to support it. He has been in the league for more than three years guy.
- John Jaeckel

I have been around a lot longer than you. I can only imagine what you were saying about Devan Dubnyk before he arose from the dead. Goalies are not normal people and Mason has done a great job in Philly. Yeah, he lost it in Columbus for awhile but has fully recovered. I never said he was elite but he is a decent #1 goalie.

The article is about re-signing a player and you are bringing up career stats...I guess context isn't a useful part of reading and writing.

I actually said nothing bad about Huet either, I am just saying that you can get stats over different periods of time to say a lot of different things. Again, actually watching each is a very important part of realizing the difference between the two. Really the only thing you can say about both of them is they each had parts of their career where they were really good and really poor. A large difference is that Huet's career ended badly, where Mason had a bad start and has become a very good, reliable goalie. You would think the latter would be considered in a discussion about re-signing him.
- YuenglingJagr

This is only partially true, and ESPECIALLY wrong on Mason.

He had a GREAT start to his career with a promising young Blue Jackets team and he had a rough half season which turned into a disastrous three seasons because he could handle it mentally. He has had some decent periods with the Flyers but I seem to recall Neuvirth pretty much taking the job from him last year.

So yeah, I consider all the facts, not just the limited track record of three years in Philadelphia— which in and of itself is not overwhelming proof he is the goalie to take you to the promised land.

you shouldn't generalize about fans. especially you.

also, the huet thing you said is dumb. i don't need to write 5 paragraphs about it. it was dumb. when you know you're right you only have to say things once, maybe twice. then there are the people who have to argue every point they make for some reason.
- kicksave856

Good point but who the f do you think you are?? I find you annoying at best

Good point but who the f do you think you are?? I find you annoying at best
- joegreif17

you should see me at my worst

This is only partially true, and ESPECIALLY wrong on Mason.

He had a GREAT start to his career with a promising young Blue Jackets team and he had a rough half season which turned into a disastrous three seasons because he could handle it mentally. He has had some decent periods with the Flyers but I seem to recall Neuvirth pretty much taking the job from him last year.

So yeah, I consider all the facts, not just the limited track record of three years in Philadelphia— which in and of itself is not overwhelming proof he is the goalie to take you to the promised land.
- John Jaeckel

was generalizing between CBJ time and PHI time, but whatever. I guess a save percentage well above league average isn't enough to take a team to the promised land, but what do I know I never saw him in person when he played 4 years ago! Honestly it is mind blowing to think a 21 year old goalie has mental issues

If that is what you want to act like it is about, at least give him credit for turning it around. He has overcome "mental issues" several times now.

I have been around a lot longer than you. I can only imagine what you were saying about Devan Dubnyk before he arose from the dead. Goalies are not normal people and Mason has done a great job in Philly. Yeah, he lost it in Columbus for awhile but has fully recovered. I never said he was elite but he is a decent #1 goalie.
- joegreif17

Really, Joe? I go back to Bobby Orr and Bobby Hull, the 60s, and what the hell difference does that make anyway?

Mason is a #1 for some clubs, I will grant you that. The POINT of what I wrote is this: the Flyers have some nice pieces and a great coach. My opinion is, you need that goalie who has the goods, physically and mentally, to get you to the Cup, when you have the other pieces, and I don't think Mason is that. I don't think a "decent" #1 goalie is that. OK? I think there are about 15 guys in the league maybe who do that, unless the team in front of them is REALLY good (like Antti Niemi in 2010, one example).

And no Mason can't carry Corey Crawford's jockstrap with a Caterpillar D9. You want stats on that one? I got 'em.

This is only partially true, and ESPECIALLY wrong on Mason.

He had a GREAT start to his career with a promising young Blue Jackets team and he had a rough half season which turned into a disastrous three seasons because he could handle it mentally. He has had some decent periods with the Flyers but I seem to recall Neuvirth pretty much taking the job from him last year.

So yeah, I consider all the facts, not just the limited track record of three years in Philadelphia— which in and of itself is not overwhelming proof he is the goalie to take you to the promised land.
- John Jaeckel

Neuvirth played outstanding but there is a guy who can't stay healthy. Mason had some mysterious back, knee or who knows symptoms last year. I am not sure I would pay Bishop twice as much as Mason to be about the same in net. Bishop has struggled lots this year. This will blow you away but I would love to put Raanta in the flyers net and he would be the next Kipper in net. Sorry but I have a thing for Raanta, his name and his style match his awesome demeanor.

was generalizing between CBJ time and PHI time, but whatever. I guess a save percentage well above league average isn't enough to take a team to the promised land, but what do I know I never saw him in person when he played 4 years ago! Honestly it is mind blowing to think a 21 year old goalie has mental issues

If that is what you want to act like it is about, at least give him credit for turning it around. He has overcome "mental issues" several times now.
- YuenglingJagr

I do, like I said, GREAT KID.

I said that, right? Great attitude.

But it's having to "overcome" those extended funks (when they happen and sometimes last a while) I would worry about. Yes, all goalies have them. His have been longer than what I'd want, a lot longer and sometimes at bad times.

And I'm not "acting" like anything. I have an opinion supported by facts and some generally accepted beliefs about the best goalies. FWIW.

Neuvirth played outstanding but there is a guy who can't stay healthy. Mason had some mysterious back, knee or who knows symptoms last year. I am not sure I would pay Bishop twice as much as Mason to be about the same in net. Bishop has struggled lots this year. This will blow you away but I would love to put Raanta in the flyers net and he would be the next Kipper in net. Sorry but I have a thing for Raanta, his name and his style match his awesome demeanor.
- joegreif17

You and me both. As much as I love Scott Darling, because he is also a great kid with a great story and you want to talk about overcoming adversity? Ha.

BUT, Raanta, I believe, has some special talent and ICEWATER in his veins. he is a lot like another guy I love and that's Craig Anderson. Craig just wins, and wins huge games in the playoffs, with terrible defenses in front of him, and he has overcome a lot in his career and worked to be that kind of goalie, but he never really melts down or goes into two year funks. Craig, who is an old friend of a friend of mine (also a goalie) and I have met, is incredibly confident and has the attitude you want. Super competitive. Raanta is very easy going in person, but is incredibly competitive on the ice. And I believe he will be a very good #1 in the league somewhere, if not NY.

Really, Joe? I go back to Bobby Orr and Bobby Hull, the 60s, and what the hell difference does that make anyway?

Mason is a #1 for some clubs, I will grant you that. The POINT of what I wrote is this: the Flyers have some nice pieces and a great coach. My opinion is, you need that goalie who has the goods, physically and mentally, to get you to the Cup, when you have the other pieces, and I don't think Mason is that. I don't think a "decent" #1 goalie is that. OK? I think there are about 15 guys in the league maybe who do that, unless the team in front of them is REALLY good (like Antti Niemi in 2010, one example).

And no Mason can't carry Corey Crawford's jockstrap with a Caterpillar D9. You want stats on that one? I got 'em.
- John Jaeckel

Wow, I have always had the utmost respect for you JJ and I still do but that CC statement is way off. You know as well as I do that Chicago can make any average goalie look like Ken Dryden. We do not know how Mason would have looked in Chicago but I suspect much better than he has done in Philly. The actual team can make a goalie look bad or great depending on the team. If Dubnyk had not toiled for the Oilers and all their on and off the ice problems he probably would have been an elite goalie long before hitting a solid team like Minnesota. I also remember very clearly how you knocked CC and so did most. To his credit he has become a better than average goalie and even my opinion of him has changed, like yours. All is good JJ, it is impossible to agree on everything and hopefully you see this as a good healthy debate.

Huet being better than Mason might be my favorite thing Johnny boy has ever wrote
- Girouxsalem90

He did write some time ago that Giroux was a low skill 3rd/4th line hustle type player.

May need a new favorite.

I do, like I said, GREAT KID.

I said that, right? Great attitude.

But it's having to "overcome" those extended funks (when they happen and sometimes last a while) I would worry about. Yes, all goalies have them. His have been longer than what I'd want, a lot longer and sometimes at bad times.

And I'm not "acting" like anything. I have an opinion supported by facts and some generally accepted beliefs about the best goalies. FWIW.
- John Jaeckel

Guess I just expected more from someone who clamors so hard about how Crawford is underrated because of the team in front of him (several blogs worth I have read). It really isn't the opinion on the matter because as I said, you aren't the first or last Mason hater by any means. I expected you to see things with more of an open mind and see the big picture, maybe.

I don't understand how you can look at the stats of what he is NOW and watch him play NOW and think, yeah he couldn't win a cup. That is just ridiculous to me

Wow, I have always had the utmost respect for you JJ and I still do but that CC statement is way off. You know as well as I do that Chicago can make any average goalie look like Ken Dryden. We do not know how Mason would have looked in Chicago but I suspect much better than he has done in Philly. The actual team can make a goalie look bad or great depending on the team. If Dubnyk had not toiled for the Oilers and all their on and off the ice problems he probably would have been an elite goalie long before hitting a solid team like Minnesota. I also remember very clearly how you knocked CC and so did most. To his credit he has become a better than average goalie and even my opinion of him has changed, like yours. All is good JJ, it is impossible to agree on everything and hopefully you see this as a good healthy debate.
- joegreif17

Dubnyk is garbage and I have the stats to prove it