Buries Fleury while ignoring Murray was below average his last two starts. Play the hot hand. Simple as that
- Deadstar

That can become a vicious cycle. It seems most tenders need the bulk of playing time to get sharp. If your not giving either player a chance to recover from a clunker, you most likely will never get one of them at a peak level.

Got to go with Murray. There's virtually no way Murray isn't the starter next year. The only value to continue to play MAF is trade value and right now he's falling on his face.

It would be fleury for Miller + 2nd at worst.

Miller is paid higher than fleury. Yes its one year versus 2 years, but Fleury is still a good risks/reward to be a #1 goalie.

I could kind of consider a trade like fleury for Miller + 2nd. We could could buy miller out and only have a cap charge of $2 million for 2 years.

No way we could keep Miller on the team at $6 million per. We have far too many guys to resign this offseason to have a bad 6 million contract on the books. Schultz might need paid. Bonino might be a guy we downgrade now, but we are still probably shelling out 3 million on another center to fill in depth. dumo gets a raise.


Edit: When I saw people saying Miller only had one more year I assumed it meant next years contract even after looking at it on spotrac didn't check dates. If his contract is up after this year changes a lot of the calculus. A 1st still seems way to high. I think r/r at what goalies get paid today $5 million is a more than reasonable price for fleury. Guys who are barely proven get $5 million per year with the hope they will be a number 1. So a proven number 1 guy whose in a small slump seems far at $5 million. I'd rather do Fleury (750k retained) for Miller.

Also why would Vancouver want to do this deal in season? Shouldn't they be tanking.

Only other option would be something like Fleury (1 million retained) for Miller (4 million retained). That would be a pretty fair deal.

It would be fleury for Miller + 2nd at worst.

Miller is paid higher than fleury. Yes its one year versus 2 years, but Fleury is still a good risks/reward to be a #1 goalie.

I could kind of consider a trade like fleury for Miller + 2nd. We could could buy miller out and only have a cap charge of $2 million for 2 years.

No way we could keep Miller on the team at $6 million per. We have far too many guys to resign this offseason to have a bad 6 million contract on the books. Schultz might need paid. Bonino might be a guy we downgrade now, but we are still probably shelling out 3 million on another center to fill in depth. dumo gets a raise.

Only other option would be something like Fleury (1 million retained) for Miller (4 million retained). That would be a pretty fair deal.
- sditulli

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...central/team.php?team=VAN


Miller's deal is up after THIS SEASON... I would suggest a redo on your post bud, he would have zero effect on next year's contracts

That can become a vicious cycle. It seems most tenders need the bulk of playing time to get sharp. If your not giving either player a chance to recover from a clunker, you most likely will never get one of them at a peak level.

Got to go with Murray. There's virtually no way Murray isn't the starter next year. The only value to continue to play MAF is trade value and right now he's falling on his face.
- madmike71

He's going to be the starter next year. But his starts against the Devils and Islanders were not good either.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...central/team.php?team=VAN


Miller's deal is up after THIS SEASON... I would suggest a redo on your post bud, he would have zero effect on next year's contracts
- Guile

I was in process of doing that. Changes the deal a lot.

Monday’s game was already the 13th time this season (in only 26 games) where they have faced a two-goal deficit at some point in the game when they trailed 4-2 midway through the second period. They have now won six of those games, and are 5-6-1 when they have trailed after two periods. In one of those regulation losses they actually overcome a three-goal deficit, tied the game, and then gave up the winner in the closing minute.

per Gretz's article in RW's blog.
- j.boyd919

apparently,

the Pens have also trailed by atleast one goal in 19/26 games (73%) and their record is 10-7-2. (obviously doesn't separate games out where they lost the lead late, but still)

Buries Fleury while ignoring Murray was below average his last two starts. Play the hot hand. Simple as that
- Deadstar

Murray's below average starts are still better than what Fleury has been this season. At least with Murray's poor starts he keeps the team in the game.

Who's the hot hand? A goalie that ranks 46th out of 47 eligible goalies in GAA and 41st in SV% or a 2.01 GAA with a SV% of .931?

The sooner MAF leaves the better. Amazing how many starts he has gotten even with Murray healthy.

RW, I believe Shearys pass to Crosby was originally intended for Hornqvist and not an area pass to Crosby. The Ottawa player got a piece of the puck to slow it down.....none the less, end result was a beauty of a goal

Ohh no doubt, that is exactly what happened.

That can become a vicious cycle. It seems most tenders need the bulk of playing time to get sharp. If your not giving either player a chance to recover from a clunker, you most likely will never get one of them at a peak level.

Got to go with Murray. There's virtually no way Murray isn't the starter next year. The only value to continue to play MAF is trade value and right now he's falling on his face.
- madmike71

I agree

Murray's below average starts are still better than what Fleury has been this season. At least with Murray's poor starts he keeps the team in the game.

Who's the hot hand? A goalie that ranks 46th out of 47 eligible goalies in GAA and 41st in SV% or a 2.01 GAA with a SV% of .931?

The sooner MAF leaves the better. Amazing how many starts he has gotten even with Murray healthy.
- acdc1206

They are producing "Quality startS" at similar rates, but Fleury has 3 "Really bad Starts" compared to Murray's 0. Fleury is pretty (frank)ing brutal this season, aside from a few games.

Moving Fleury has to be getting more difficult by the minute. I've always been a HUGE Fleury fan, but he's playing the worst hockey of his career right now. It's going to be hard to move a 33 year old goalie on the decline with a $5.75M a cap hit.

TIOPS mentioned today that the idea of a buyout is growing. Clearly a buyout is the VERY last option the Pens should consider, but the Pens are in a tough spot.

There's a good chance the Pens will have to retain up to 50% of his contract in a trade, which is clearly better than four years of nearly a $2M cap hit. TIOPS also mentioned the Pens may have to take back a bad contract, which is something I would be vehemently against.

Honestly, and I may be in the minority here, I'm not that concerned about maximum return in a Fleury trade. I think the priority is getting him and his cap off the books in order to protect Murray. If I'm JR and DAL really has true interest, I'd swap him out for one of their goalies and a 2nd then call it a day.

Moving Fleury has to be getting more difficult by the minute. I've always been a HUGE Fleury fan, but he's playing the worst hockey of his career right now. It's going to be hard to move a 33 year old goalie on the decline with a $5.75M a cap hit.

TIOPS mentioned today that the idea of a buyout is growing. Clearly a buyout is the VERY last option the Pens should consider, but the Pens are in a tough spot.

There's a good chance the Pens will have to retain up to 50% of his contract in a trade, which is clearly better than four years of nearly a $2M cap hit. TIOPS also mentioned the Pens may have to take back a bad contract, which is something I would be vehemently against.

Honestly, and I may be in the minority here, I'm not that concerned about maximum return in a Fleury trade. I think the priority is getting him and his cap off the books in order to protect Murray. If I'm JR and DAL really has true interest, I'd swap him out for one of their goalies and a 2nd then call it a day.
- Rinosaur

So you wouldn't do the Flower for Miller with Van swap, or Flower for one of the Dallas goalies swap? You get 1 or 2 years less cap and even cap relief if Nemi and a non protected goalie you can pawn off even easier for teams that may not be on Flower's NM list.

Moving Fleury has to be getting more difficult by the minute. I've always been a HUGE Fleury fan, but he's playing the worst hockey of his career right now. It's going to be hard to move a 33 year old goalie on the decline with a $5.75M a cap hit.

TIOPS mentioned today that the idea of a buyout is growing. Clearly a buyout is the VERY last option the Pens should consider, but the Pens are in a tough spot.

There's a good chance the Pens will have to retain up to 50% of his contract in a trade, which is clearly better than four years of nearly a $2M cap hit. TIOPS also mentioned the Pens may have to take back a bad contract, which is something I would be vehemently against.

Honestly, and I may be in the minority here, I'm not that concerned about maximum return in a Fleury trade. I think the priority is getting him and his cap off the books in order to protect Murray. If I'm JR and DAL really has true interest, I'd swap him out for one of their goalies and a 2nd then call it a day.
- Rinosaur

I'd even forget the pick at this point. Niemi and the rights to Nuke, which are worthless at this point. He needs to be moved. I understood the sentiment for goalie depth, but right now Flower is playing like a backup and that level of play is no longer worth the headache. I am a huge Flower fan and supporter and its just getting to the point where its making me sad seeing him struggle this bad. His only shot at getting back on track is a change of scenery.

So you wouldn't do the Flower for Miller with Van swap, or Flower for one of the Dallas goalies swap? You get 1 or 2 years less cap and even cap relief if Nemi and a non protected goalie you can pawn off even easier for teams that may not be on Flower's NM list.
- Guile

I think a Miller swap would be great, but the issue is that the Pens need to have another goalie on contract to expose at the expansion draft. None of the other goalies in their system qualify to be included in the draft.

Niemi and Lehtonen only have one more year after this season, so it wouldn't be too much of an issue cap-wise.

Maybe JR could work some magic and incentivize DAL to retain some salary.

I think a Miller swap would be great, but the issue is that the Pens need to have another goalie on contract to expose at the expansion draft. None of the other goalies in their system qualify to be included in the draft.

Niemi and Lehtonen only have one more year after this season, so it wouldn't be too much of an issue cap-wise.

Maybe JR could work some magic and incentivize DAL to retain some salary.
- Rinosaur

Ah, stupid expansion rules... forgot that would make Miller a no go with Murray being the only one left (Are we sure Jarry couldn't be exposed then, no offense to him but Murray is now, and we did grab ANOTHER high tier prospect in the last draft)... but we could also "technically" go an sign a backup to a 1 year 1 mil deal to have exposed in that scenario no?

Worst case on that is we eat his contract for a year, but we did just gain 4+ on Flower being dealt so its a win.

And I'd consider either with Dallas a win... the Lehtonen is so small an increase, but 1 year less so it'd be a good swap. Nemi of course, much more ideal if we can choose.

Ah, stupid expansion rules... forgot that would make Miller a no go... but we could "technically" go an sign a backup to a 1 year 1 mil deal to have exposed in that scenario no?

Worst case on that is we eat his contract for a year, but we did just gain 4+ on Flower being dealt so its a win.

And I'd consider either with Dallas a win... the Lehtonen is so small an increase, but 1 year less so it'd be a good swap. Nemi of course, much more ideal if we can choose.
- Guile

This is were Condon would have came in handy.

They could realistically trade for Miller and extend him for one season at a very reasonable price of course. Miller may be inclined to take a $1.5Mish contract if he thinks he may finally get a cup.

Let's just hope James doesn't go Jim Benning and trade away both Fleury and Murray, leaving Jarry the starter

Let's just hope James doesn't go Jim Benning and trade away both Fleury and Murray, leaving Jarry the starter


- DeflatedPucks

Hush yo mowf!

This is were Condon would have came in handy.

They could realistically trade for Miller and extend him for one season at a very reasonable price of course. Miller may be inclined to take a $1.5Mish contract if he thinks he may finally get a cup.
- Rinosaur

We can't just sign another Condon type before the expo draft? Not to spit on that player's worth for us... but there are probably a number of backups would still would take that deal because they would either be the backup here, or a possibly split time starter in Vegas... both of which has them being paid.

Perhaps another option is just to make an under-the-table deal with Vegas not to select Murray and maintain status quo

I think a Miller swap would be great, but the issue is that the Pens need to have another goalie on contract to expose at the expansion draft. None of the other goalies in their system qualify to be included in the draft.

Niemi and Lehtonen only have one more year after this season, so it wouldn't be too much of an issue cap-wise.

Maybe JR could work some magic and incentivize DAL to retain some salary.
- Rinosaur

Yeah, Dallas is an ideal trade partner. Either goalie would be fine as a backup and do atleast as good of a job as Flower. I know that there is fear if Murray gets injured, but if it were long term I wouldn't be opposed to Jarry getting a hefty amount of playing time. I still think that he may be the best overall of the three goalies that we do have when all is said and done.

Perhaps another option is just to make an under-the-table deal with Vegas not to select Murray and maintain status quo
- DeflatedPucks

that is getting silly expensive. Fleury needs to go for cap reasons. We can't have close to $10 tied up in the goalie position. so having to eat something to ship fleury out and then bribe Vegas not to select Murray would be very expensive.

I don't think signing a back up will be that hard before the expansion draft. Bigger issue is figuring out fleury and boosting his value enough to limit downside of trading him.

that is getting silly expensive. Fleury needs to go for cap reasons. We can't have close to $10 tied up in the goalie position. so having to eat something to ship fleury out and then bribe Vegas not to select Murray would be very expensive.

I don't think signing a back up will be that hard before the expansion draft. Bigger issue is figuring out fleury and boosting his value enough to limit downside of trading him.
- sditulli

Typical bribes to expo teams are lower grade prospect, or late round pick... meh.

Eating some that is less than the value of Flower shouldn't be a deal breaker. Had he not sunk last night, we could be having talks of his value getting back to neutral and things looking bright on dealing him.

And yet you want Hobo Richard cheese
- Guile

Its more appealing than Ference's cap hit.

Its more appealing than Ference's cap hit.
- Wildschwein

Actually, we will GLADLY trade you Flower for Ference... straight up?