I'm so happy you frankers have stopped referring to him by incorrect initials.

I don't like MacDonald because his legs are too skinny, and I have an assumption that he prefers to be called Drew over Andy
- YuenglingJagr

If his legs were thicker, he'd block more shots.

I did look at the link, so your assumption is wrong. I'm looking at this season.
- MJL

Obviously when dealing with analytics and statistical analysis, sample size should be considered.
- MJL

If his legs were thicker, he'd block more shots.
- MJL

still wouldn't fix his corsi

Getting feisty in here

Edit: That list also shows that Dale Weise is much more effective at generating offense that Voracek, who is the second worst on the team.
- jmatchett383

Weise actually has the highest GF% because most of his games were played on a Montreal team with a better defense and goalie.

He is not scoring a lot this year, which is why he is 12th out of 13 in production.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

I'm so happy you frankers have stopped referring to him by incorrect initials.
- Scoob

It was keeping me up and night quite frankly.

No, I haven't. I've been referencing the fact that he was the Flyers best 5 on 5 point scorer last season, and that is more relevant than his ranking in 20 games this season, especially bearing in mind he is still above Giroux and Schenn. Similarly Ghost is last on the defense in that category, a long way behind MacDonald, but it's not going to last. It's just a quirk of a small sample size.

Over a long period the Flyers top 6 have basically scored at the same rate 5 on 5. Individual stats = Production.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

But it's funny how shot attempts aren't possession and don't even matter when they are the thing that's being used constantly on this forum to trash MacDonald for over three years.
- Feanor

Hot attempts are not possession. Possession would be having control of the puck. Hot attempts are attempts to shoot the puck on goal.

And actually, you did use his 5v5 "possession" numbers to show that he was actually having a good season this year. You also, on other times, used his 5v5 points/60 numbers to show that he has produced at a good rate over a good portion of his career. You used this year's numbers to directly oppose opeth's insistence that he was not having a good season this year, as well as to show that his 2C role was independent of powerplay production.

Getting feisty in here
- Mordecai

was a fantastic gif opportunity

Getting feisty in here
- Mordecai

tis the season

was a fantastic gif opportunity
- YuenglingJagr

I'm recycling gifs at this point haven't had time to get some new material

Hot attempts are not possession. Possession would be having control of the puck. Hot attempts are attempts to shoot the puck on goal.

And actually, you did use his 5v5 "possession" numbers to show that he was actually having a good season this year. You also, on other times, used his 5v5 points/60 numbers to show that he has produced at a good rate over a good portion of his career. You used this year's numbers to directly oppose opeth's insistence that he was not having a good season this year, as well as to show that his 2C role was independent of powerplay production.
- jmatchett383

So you admit that I wasn't judging any player solely on 5 on 5 shot attempts?

I mean, that would be a pretty silly thing to allege considering I'm probably the second biggest MacDonald defender on here after MJL.

Weise actually has the highest GF% because most of his games were played on a Montreal team with a better defense and goalie.

He is not scoring a lot this year, which is why he is 12th out of 13 in production.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC
- Feanor

If we're going to use that table to judge player FOR THIS SEASON, then Chris VandeVelde is the second best player on the team.

Also, going back to your original table (goals for %) and using it only for this year, his only one with the Flyers, Dale Weise is the second best producer on the team.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

This is why MJL says you can pick stats that can prove/disprove any stance you want to take.

So you admit that I wasn't judging any player solely on 5 on 5 shot attempts?
- Feanor

At some times solely, no. At other times solely, yes. Which is why I stated "on other times" which should have read "at other times."

I did look at the link, so your assumption is wrong. I'm looking at this season.
- MJL



Obviously when dealing with analytics and statistical analysis, sample size should be considered.
- JFlyers00

The context of the conversation was about the team being heavily outscored when he is on the ice, rather than a statistical analysis of the player. Whether we use just this season, or the last two seasons before this, it is still not true that the team is heavily outscored when he is on the ice.

Yes it is. The team gives up 2.36 goals for every 60 minutes VdV is on the ice. It only scores 1.56. If you restrict it to just 16-17, the numbers get even worse.

If we're going to use that table to judge player FOR THIS SEASON, then Chris VandeVelde is the second best player on the team.

Also, going back to your original table (goals for %) and using it only for this year, his only one with the Flyers, Dale Weise is the second best producer on the team.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

This is why MJL says you can pick stats that can prove/disprove any stance you want to take.
- jmatchett383

Using 20 games to judge a player is retarded, which is why I'm not doing it, and provided a table that covered three seasons.

If you're going to try and debate this stuff, you really need to do some basic research. GF% doesn't measure production, just like +/- doesn't. To see a player's production you need to click on "Individual Stats" and look at the points they actually scored. Weise is 12th out of 13 forwards in 5 on 5 production this season, but I don't expect him to stay that low because he's produced at a much higher rate the past two years. Just like Couturier, and just like Ghost.

Using 20 games to judge a player is retarded, which is why I'm not doing it, and provided a table that covered three seasons.

If you're going to try and debate this stuff, you really need to do some basic research. GF% doesn't measure production, just like +/- doesn't. To see a player's production you need to click on "Individual Stats" and look at the points they actually scored. Weise is 12th out of 13 forwards in 5 on 5 production this season, but I don't expect him to stay that low because he's produced at a much higher rate the past two years. Just like Couturier, and just like Ghost.
- Feanor

Yeah, except that I'm right.

Yeah, except that I'm right.
- jmatchett383

You don't even know the basics of the subject you're trying and failing to talk intelligently about.

Yeah, except that I'm right.
- jmatchett383

You don't even know the basics of the subject you're trying and failing to talk intelligently about.
- Feanor

You can stop being wrong whenever you'd like.

- YuenglingJagr

Dude didn't even get anyone to iron out the creases in his new trunks...

Still won despite not paying attention to the details. He's a Flyer.

If we're going to use that table to judge player FOR THIS SEASON, then Chris VandeVelde is the second best player on the team.
- jmatchett383

And if we use the same Production table, but for all dmen in the NHL, MDZ is the best defenseman in the league and MacDonald is the 8th best.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

But, again, only a retard would do that.

Using 20 games to judge a player is retarded, which is why I'm not doing it, and provided a table that covered three seasons.

- Feanor

Every single post on Coots I say the same thing as do most logical people who dont see him as the savior of all things Flyers hockey but view him as very valuable part of the teams overall success plan...

1. Prior to injury this season he was not producing
2. His numbers over the course of his career indicate that wont be the case at the end of the season.

Im not sure why the "his ES points on the third Thursday of every month/60 "crowd disagree with those statements but whatever makes you happy..

All I care about is the team has now won 5 games in a row and Mason has really settled in.

And if we use the same Production table, but for all dmen in the NHL, MDZ is the best defenseman in the league and MacDonald is the 8th best.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

But, again, only a retard would do that.
- Feanor

Which, again, is why you can pick and choose whatever analytics you would like, to support or disprove whatever argument you choose.

I'm not trying to say that Couturier is a bad player or that VandeVelde and Weise are especially good ones. My point was that basing a player solely on some results from tables of raw data should not be the only way they are measured.

Getting feisty in here
- Mordecai

Let's make it more feisty...


VdV....VdV....VdV....VdV....VdV....VdV....