I haven't seen him move out of the top-5 on anyone's board.
- neem55

He hasn't but he will (in my opinion)

2nd overall. Pre-season. Still may be the best of the bunch, only one in the NHL this year.
- neem55

He shouldn't be in the NHL. Arizona is awful. I'd be surprised if he is a top 5 out of D in this draft

He shouldn't be in the NHL. Arizona is awful. I'd be surprised if he is a top 5 out of D in this draft
- CanuckDon

Arizona is awful....but I thought they brought in anew analytic geek to be a saviour, so much for that. Appears Florida also having issues with analytic geeks running the show

Arizona is awful....but I thought they brought in anew analytic geek to be a saviour, so much for that. Appears Florida also having issues with analytic geeks running the show
- Reubenkincade

Goddamn analytics pussies

2nd overall. Pre-season. Still may be the best of the bunch, only one in the NHL this year.
- neem55

Chychrun droppped in draft for a reason. Why JB didn't pick him was primarily his upside and hockey IQ was limited. He has an NHL ready body and can play a third pairing for sure. But that's probably his ceiling. Not a top pairing D and top 4 highly questionable.

He hasn't but he will (in my opinion)
- CanuckDon

That's nice. When you support your opinion with facts, it might have a bit more to it. Until then, I'll take the opinion of every draft site/specialist I've seen.

He shouldn't be in the NHL. Arizona is awful. I'd be surprised if he is a top 5 out of D in this draft
- CanuckDon

He was top-5 d out of the last draft, your comment doesn't make much sense.

Arizona is awful, he's played pretty well. I agree the knock that was reported was IQ and upside. Time will tell with Chychrun and all of the d picks in the last draft. I think he will be a good player. He's being trusted with more icetime each game and Tippett is notoriously not easy on young guys.

Chychrun droppped in draft for a reason. Why JB didn't pick him was primarily his upside and hockey IQ was limited. He has an NHL ready body and can play a third pairing for sure. But that's probably his ceiling. Not a top pairing D and top 4 highly questionable.
- Nuck4U

I would argue it that over scouting started to play a factor in him dropping (not the overall reason, but I think it plays a big role). Chychrun was on the radar for a long time, and just like any other long term top prospect doubts begin to filter in. There is always consideration given to those on the recent upswing. Juolevi for instance won about everything he could in the 6 months prior to the draft, those stick in the minds of the GM's.

It seems dumb, but it happens every year, the consensus #1 is threatened by a new emerging prospect. Tavares/Hedman, Hall/Seguin, Matthews/Laine, Mackinnon/Seth Jones, etc. Some seem like no brainers at the time, but I am sure scouts are more attentive to the long term results and try to rectify it

That's nice. When you support your opinion with facts, it might have a bit more to it. Until then, I'll take the opinion of every draft site/specialist I've seen.
- neem55

I said it's an opinion, not fact. That's how opinions work. My opinion has been formed by experts saying they are uncertain about him and by watching what limited footage I can find on the kid. You are welcome to form your opinions based on draft lists created at the start of the season. Are draft lists facts in your opinion? It's November and there is going to be a lot of change in the first round over the next 7 months

I would argue it that over scouting started to play a factor in him dropping (not the overall reason, but I think it plays a big role). Chychrun was on the radar for a long time, and just like any other long term top prospect doubts begin to filter in. There is always consideration given to those on the recent upswing. Juolevi for instance won about everything he could in the 6 months prior to the draft, those stick in the minds of the GM's.

It seems dumb, but it happens every year, the consensus #1 is threatened by a new emerging prospect. Tavares/Hedman, Hall/Seguin, Matthews/Laine, Mackinnon/Seth Jones, etc. Some seem like no brainers at the time, but I am sure scouts are more attentive to the long term results and try to rectify it
- WhiteLie

He also blew it in international comp, the top prospects game and playoffs. I suspect scouts question his IQ and ability to rise to the occasion in big games

He also blew it in international comp, the top prospects game and playoffs. I suspect scouts question his IQ and ability to rise to the occasion in big games
- CanuckDon

While I agree that he blew it, particularly against the best of his age group at the world junior camps, I would hate to find out Canuck scouts still believe in the "big game performers". His body of work obviously was not as good as the others in terms of consistency, so he was rightfully drafted behind other defensemen, but I dont think any prospect can blow his chances in one or two weeks

I said it's an opinion, not fact. That's how opinions work. My opinion has been formed by experts saying they are uncertain about him and by watching what limited footage I can find on the kid. You are welcome to form your opinions based on draft lists created at the start of the season. Are draft lists facts in your opinion? It's November and there is going to be a lot of change in the first round over the next 7 months
- CanuckDon

Here's two draft lists created within the last Month. These are called "references" people use them to strengthen opinion. Try it out.

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/draft/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...ospect-rankings-november/

He's the consensus #2, very similar to Chychrun last year, among scouts (the guys who get paid to find/evaluate these players) which I'm guessing you are not. Word is, he's an elite skater but has a large frame that he isn't afraid to make use of. Again, I'm all for opinions but I'm just saying if you don't back them up with actual credible sources, they aren't very relevant. So, which experts are you informed by?

Arizona is awful....but I thought they brought in anew analytic geek to be a saviour, so much for that. Appears Florida also having issues with analytic geeks running the show
- Reubenkincade

You need a balance. But I think the problem is that in free flowing games that have more intangibles that can't be quantified with statistics it applies less and less. You notice the soccer world has not embraced it. Basketball only free flowing game that that has worked in to some extent because individual play is so much more predominant. Plus it's a more structured game and less predictable in flow and territory compared to Hockey and Soccer.

While I agree that he blew it, particularly against the best of his age group at the world junior camps, I would hate to find out Canuck scouts still believe in the "big game performers". His body of work obviously was not as good as the others in terms of consistency, so he was rightfully drafted behind other defensemen, but I dont think any prospect can blow his chances in one or two weeks
- WhiteLie

Rightly or wrongly Benning places a big emphasis on international play. I think Arizona was smart to draft him where they did but as you pointed out he deserved to drop

Here's two draft lists created within the last Month. These are called "references" people use them to strengthen opinion. Try it out.

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/draft/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...ospect-rankings-november/

He's the consensus #2, very similar to Chychrun last year, among scouts (the guys who get paid to find/evaluate these players) which I'm guessing you are not. Word is, he's an elite skater but has a large frame that he isn't afraid to make use of. Again, I'm all for opinions but I'm just saying if you don't back them up with actual credible sources, they aren't very relevant. So, which experts are you informed by?
- neem55

Trust me genius, I've read every prospect ranking available. My opinion is he is going to drop. I may be right, I may be wrong. I haven't been impressed with the footage I've seen of him. Mckeens anyways, we will see next June I suppose

Trust me genius, I've read every prospect ranking available. My opinion is he is going to drop. I may be right, I may be wrong. I haven't been impressed with the footage I've seen of him. Mckeens anyways, we will see next June I suppose
- CanuckDon

Genius... good one. Still no actual references, eh?

Here's a pretty good highlight package of the skating/offensive/passing ability for anyone else that's curious. I know you've seen/read them all, so don't bother with this one Don

http://thehockeywriters.c...-liljegren-in-2017-draft/

I would argue it that over scouting started to play a factor in him dropping (not the overall reason, but I think it plays a big role). Chychrun was on the radar for a long time, and just like any other long term top prospect doubts begin to filter in. There is always consideration given to those on the recent upswing. Juolevi for instance won about everything he could in the 6 months prior to the draft, those stick in the minds of the GM's.

It seems dumb, but it happens every year, the consensus #1 is threatened by a new emerging prospect. Tavares/Hedman, Hall/Seguin, Matthews/Laine, Mackinnon/Seth Jones, etc. Some seem like no brainers at the time, but I am sure scouts are more attentive to the long term results and try to rectify it
- WhiteLie

I hear what you are saying. It does play a role. Though if you are the better prospect then scrutiny will win you out.

Genius... good one. Still no actual references, eh?

Here's a pretty good highlight package of the skating/offensive/passing ability for anyone else that's curious. I know you've seen/read them all, so don't bother with this one Don

http://thehockeywriters.c...-liljegren-in-2017-draft/
- neem55

I'm on an IPhone. I don't have time to send you links of prospects. Happy hunting

I hear what are saying. Though if you are the better prospect then scrutiny will win you out.
- Nuck4U

He just didn't have a good year. The talent/ability is there, but the pressure got to him. Does that really make him a bust? Time will tell. I remember his draft interview and he was super choked he fell so far, seemed really motivated by it.

While I agree that he blew it, particularly against the best of his age group at the world junior camps, I would hate to find out Canuck scouts still believe in the "big game performers". His body of work obviously was not as good as the others in terms of consistency, so he was rightfully drafted behind other defensemen, but I dont think any prospect can blow his chances in one or two weeks
- WhiteLie

Blow? No. Mathews didn't. It's just another indicator to measure and compare. Some weigh it more then others.

He just didn't have a good year. The talent/ability is there, but the pressure got to him. Does that really make him a bust? Time will tell. I remember his draft interview and he was super choked he fell so far, seemed really motivated by it.
- neem55

Bust? No. Like I said in my previous post he's a legitimate NHL player 5/6 guy. Just not top pairing #1D. Which would have been his earlier expectation. Questionable top four but like you said time will tell.

Edit: Griffin Reinhart recent 4th over all comes to mind. NHL body but missing those extra tools under scrutiny.

Here's two draft lists created within the last Month. These are called "references" people use them to strengthen opinion. Try it out.

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/draft/

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...ospect-rankings-november/

He's the consensus #2, very similar to Chychrun last year, among scouts (the guys who get paid to find/evaluate these players) which I'm guessing you are not. Word is, he's an elite skater but has a large frame that he isn't afraid to make use of. Again, I'm all for opinions but I'm just saying if you don't back them up with actual credible sources, they aren't very relevant. So, which experts are you informed by?
- neem55

Omg we are almost at kids born in the year 2000 being drafted in the NHL. Just one more draft.

Genius... good one. Still no actual references, eh?

Here's a pretty good highlight package of the skating/offensive/passing ability for anyone else that's curious. I know you've seen/read them all, so don't bother with this one Don

http://thehockeywriters.c...-liljegren-in-2017-draft/
- neem55

https://youtu.be/9UyWFCPoouI

Shift by shift with English commentary if you want to watch a whole game. I said he would drop not that I thought he wasn't a good prospect. You are hilarious

https://youtu.be/9UyWFCPoouI

Shift by shift with English commentary if you want to watch a whole game. I said he would drop not that I thought he wasn't a good prospect. You are hilarious
- CanuckDon

Not going into who has greater info between you and Neemer. He may drop if the forwards have big seasons. But maybe he is a Hedman type.

After 8pm it's painful to come here. Can't put my finger on why. 🤔