Then what, exactly, is the point of having a bunch of guys who throw hits when you can achieve the same results more effectively through different means? Guys who lead the league in takeaways aren't usually very physical players. So why hit?
- BINGO!

But not everyone can play like Patrick Kane .

Totally irrelevant argument. There's only a handful of players like him.

There far more that need to play in a much different manner.
Those would be the guys that are much more representative of the pro hockey population

I'd like to see that study

But even still, this wouldn't suggest "hitting is bad" as was suggested.
In fact, quite the opposite. It works almost half the time.


Unless of course you're implying that no other variables could've had a factor in said results ?
- HB77

Well 40% of the available 164 points is 65.6 points which should seem normal for you.

I would too, but i'm asking what the (frank) the point is other than to hurt people? It makes sense in a playoff series, but goal #1 if you don't have the puck should ALWAYS be to get the puck back. Bumping a guy in the corner who just made a pass is usually meaningless.
- BINGO!

It takes a physical toll on the player, and there is the possibility that he will rush his pass next time.

I would too, but i'm asking what the (frank) the point is other than to hurt people? It makes sense in a playoff series, but goal #1 if you don't have the puck should ALWAYS be to get the puck back. Bumping a guy in the corner who just made a pass is usually meaningless.
- BINGO!

Unless it recovers the puck and/or it takes a physical toll on your opponent

And thus it's not meaningless

I'd like to see that study

But even still, this wouldn't suggest "hitting is bad" as was suggested.
In fact, quite the opposite. It works almost half the time.


Unless of course you're implying that no other variables could've had a factor in said results ?
- HB77

Sure, there are obviously other variables at work, and there's no reason not to throw a good clean hit when the opportunity arises, just that a lot of hits are indicative of a lack of possession.

Well 40% of the available 164 points is 65.6 points which should seem normal for you.
- Feds91Stammer

Variables son , variables


You fundamentally misunderstand the field that you're hanging your hat on

I would too, but i'm asking what the (frank) the point is other than to hurt people? It makes sense in a playoff series, but goal #1 if you don't have the puck should ALWAYS be to get the puck back. Bumping a guy in the corner who just made a pass is usually meaningless.
- BINGO!

OR it could slow a guy down or make him reluctant to go into that corner next time. Making recovering possession simpler in future instances.

It takes a physical toll on the player, and there is the possibility that he will rush his pass next time.
- Atomic Wedgie

They usually don't, though.

OR it could slow a guy down or make him reluctant to go into that corner next time. Making recovering possession simpler in future instances.
- wreckage

Ding ding ding ding ding!

And in a seven game series, even more so.

They usually don't, though.
- BINGO!

Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

You may be to young to remember the Chuck Norris Division...

Variables son , variables


You fundamentally misunderstand the field that you're hanging your hat on
- HB77

You fundamentally misunderstand the seriousness of my posts.

OR it could slow a guy down or make him reluctant to go into that corner next time. Making recovering possession simpler in future instances.
- wreckage

I've only ever argued the ridiculous definitive blanket statement that "hitting is useless"

Never even thought that one would have to actually delve into the myriad of reasons why that may be an utterly false conclusion . Fairly self explanatory

But this too. The mental aspect.
Does Lucic bearing down on you after smearing you 10 minutes earlier change your mindset and potentially you make a soft play on the puck ? This is just human nature.

Is there a study or stat for this ?

OR it could slow a guy down or make him reluctant to go into that corner next time. Making recovering possession simpler in future instances.
- wreckage

These are pros. They didn't get to this point by allowing themselves to be intimidated by another guy coming to hit them.

I can get wearing down an opponent physically, but these guys have conditioned themselves mentally that it really shouldn't bother them. They shouldn't be playing at this level if it does.

Please define your eye test and please teach me your ability to instantaneously recall the thousands of events that occur in each game.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm smarter than you.

™James Tanner

You fundamentally misunderstand the seriousness of my posts.
- Feds91Stammer

This may very well be true

These are pros. They didn't get to this point by allowing themselves to be intimidated by another guy coming to hit them.

I can get wearing down an opponent physically, but these guys have conditioned themselves mentally that it really shouldn't bother them. They shouldn't be playing at this level if it does.
- BINGO!

Dude , I dunno if I can agree with this


I THINK there are certainly players that are much more or much less fearful than others .

But overall, I can agree that if you're scared to take a hit, you aren't in the NHL . I just THINK there might be varying degrees. And over time especially

I've only ever argued the ridiculous definitive blanket statement that "hitting is useless"

Never even thought that one would have to actually delve into the myriad of reasons why that may be an utterly false conclusion . Fairly self explanatory

But this too. The mental aspect.
Does Lucic bearing down on you after smearing you 10 minutes earlier change your mindset and potentially you make a soft play on the puck ? This is just human nature.

Is there a study or stat for this ?
- HB77

If I skate poorly enough to allow Lucic to regularly hit me I am going to retire.

Dude , I dunno if I can agree with this


I THINK there are certainly players that are much more or much less fearful than others .

But overall, I can agree that if you're scared to take a hit, you aren't in the NHL . I just THINK there might be varying degrees. And over time especially
- HB77

Perhaps. I just remember Paul Maurice talking about how he had only ever had one player ask him to keep him away from another guy on the ice, and that was Ray Whitney asking him to keep him away from Chara as much as possible.

I've only ever argued the ridiculous definitive blanket statement that "hitting is useless"

Never even thought that one would have to actually delve into the myriad of reasons why that may be an utterly false conclusion . Fairly self explanatory

But this too. The mental aspect.
Does Lucic bearing down on you after smearing you 10 minutes earlier change your mindset and potentially you make a soft play on the puck ? This is just human nature.

Is there a study or stat for this ?
- HB77

I don't think there would be a stat on mental aspects. But I know I've seen guys looking over their shoulder or turtle after they've been crushed in the past.

But then if I get to say kane isn't representative of the population, then neither is lucic

So overall , those extremes aren't fair to use

Perhaps. I just remember Paul Maurice talking about how he had only ever had one player ask him to keep him away from another guy on the ice, and that was Ray Whitney asking him to keep him away from Chara as much as possible.
- BINGO!

As if he called him out like that !


But I don't blame the little guy

It's a stat that's subject to a pile of variables, just like all the other stats out there.

If you want to use 300 stats to arrive at essentially the same conclusion as a guy using one and the eye test then go ahead. Just don't discredit the folks that can't be bothered to use the 300 statistics only to realize there are outliers with those as well.
- golfingsince

While all stats require context - as does anything - some stats are inherently better than other.

Stats that use 'process' (like shots) over 'results' (like goals) will always be inherently better because of bigger sample sizes available to crunch the numbers.

So while both say raw Corsi and plus minus require that you do work to really get at what you are trying to get at, Corsi is inherently a better, less flawed stat.

Furthermore, an analysis of stats almost always proves that the eye-test is flawed. But anyone who's ever taken an intro to psychology or criminology or sociology class knows that already.

If I skate poorly enough to allow Lucic to regularly hit me I am going to retire.
- Feds91Stammer

These are pros. They didn't get to this point by allowing themselves to be intimidated by another guy coming to hit them.

I can get wearing down an opponent physically, but these guys have conditioned themselves mentally that it really shouldn't bother them. They shouldn't be playing at this level if it does.
- BINGO!

There are guys that bring other aspects to a game other than physical attributes. Do you think Paul Kariya didn't look around to see where Stevens was after the first time Stevens crushed him crossing the blue line? It may only cause a tenth of a second difference, but those tenths add up. And if he's looking over his shoulder to know where a more physical player is maybe he misses the pass coming his way and the puck ends up on the other teams stick. Or he's holding the stick too tight and misses his tap in next time around.

These are pros. They didn't get to this point by allowing themselves to be intimidated by another guy coming to hit them.

I can get wearing down an opponent physically, but these guys have conditioned themselves mentally that it really shouldn't bother them. They shouldn't be playing at this level if it does.
- BINGO!

I am starting to think I missed that you are being intentionally dense to have some fun.
No, these guys are not afraid of body contact. But the average NHL player is a large human being. Getting smashed into by one of the can and most often will hurt. It is more a matter of the player getting rid of the puck just a little bit quicker so they can brace themselves properly for the hit. If they don't brace themselves the result of the impact is MUCH worse. And on a rink filled with guys this talented, it only takes that small amount of rushing to result in a pass that can be intercepted.
None of these guys just shrug of a hit because they are big, tough athletes. They manage to do it by being experienced enough to know how to minimize the damage.