Thanks for proving my point.
- golfingsince

Your point was bad.

Goal differential is result based that is largely impacted by PDO.

Plus-minus is calculated poorly and credits players for goals for or against that they had no impact on.

Of course it does, but if you're continually hitting a guy, it means he's got the puck a hell of a lot more than you do. Your hits probably aren't having much of an effect if that's happening.
- BINGO!

Nah hits are good bro.

Nah hits are good bro.
- Feds91Stammer

Yeah that Patrick Kane guy sucks. Never hits. He won't win anything like that.

Of course it does, but if you're continually hitting a guy it means he's got the puck a hell of a lot more than you do. Your hits probably aren't having much of an effect if that's happening.
- BINGO!

Agreed

If there's been no change in possession, scoring rate etc. and you've never recovered the puck over a game or a series, then clearly your hitting hasn't had the effect you hoped

Yeah that Patrick Kane guy sucks. Never hits. He won't win anything like that.
- BINGO!

He disappears in the playoffs when it gets more physical though.

Yeah that Patrick Kane guy sucks. Never hits. He won't win anything like that.
- BINGO!

Of course he does!


Oh wait, you mean ON the ice....

Yeah that Patrick Kane guy sucks. Never hits. He won't win anything like that.
- BINGO!

Huh?

How is this a relevant argument?


No one said anything remotely close to this


The point was made that hits are bad. Full stop. No context. No qualifying.
Which is ridiculous.

And then the debate is flipped so that those who see flaws in this contention must not think Kane is good cause he doesn't hit


You guys are good

Huh?

How is this a relevant argument?


No one said anything remotely close to this


The point was made that hits are bad. Full stop. No context. No qualifying.
Which is ridiculous.

And then the debate is flipped so that those who see flaws in this contention must not think Kane is good cause he doesn't hit


You guys are good
- HB77

How does he get the puck all the time without hitting people though?

Your point was bad.

Goal differential is result based that is largely impacted by PDO.

Plus-minus is calculated poorly and credits players for goals for or against that they had no impact on.
- Feds91Stammer

It's a stat that's subject to a pile of variables, just like all the other stats out there.

If you want to use 300 stats to arrive at essentially the same conclusion as a guy using one and the eye test then go ahead. Just don't discredit the folks that can't be bothered to use the 300 statistics only to realize there are outliers with those as well.

Sarcasm and exaggeration to drives ones irrelevant point home

Ahhhhh hockeybuzz. Good times .

Agreed

If there's been no change in possession, scoring rate etc. and you've never recovered the puck over a game or a series, then clearly your hitting hasn't had the effect you hoped
- HB77

Which is the case more often than not.

A few years ago a study was down that found that the team that threw more hits during the game lost more often than they won (Almost 60/40).

That's pretty a pretty significant swing when teams are all so close.

Of course he does!


Oh wait, you mean ON the ice....
- lumlums

Sarcasm and exaggeration to drives ones irrelevant point home

Ahhhhh hockeybuzz. Good times .
- HB77

Ovie was top 20 in forwards for hits last year, I guess he never has the puck!

How does he get the puck all the time without hitting people though?
- Feds91Stammer

Cause that's not the only way one can regain possession.
There's infinite ways the puck could end up on his stick.
Who said otherwise ?



Did you think this point actually made sense in the greater context of what YOU posted earlier ?

Sorry, but no

It's a stat that's subject to a pile of variables, just like all the other stats out there.

If you want to use 300 stats to arrive at essentially the same conclusion as a guy using one and the eye test then go ahead. Just don't discredit the folks that can't be bothered to use the 300 statistics only to realize there are outliers with those as well.
- golfingsince

Please define your eye test and please teach me your ability to instantaneously recall the thousands of events that occur in each game.

It's a stat that's subject to a pile of variables, just like all the other stats out there.

If you want to use 300 stats to arrive at essentially the same conclusion as a guy using one and the eye test then go ahead. Just don't discredit the folks that can't be bothered to use the 300 statistics only to realize there are outliers with those as well.
- golfingsince

This.


He loves his advanced stats.

But I don't think he actually knows how they work.

I don't blame him for not doing his research on the subject beyond the face value numbers.
Quantitative analysis classes are the absolute worst

Which is the case more often than not.

A few years ago a study was down that found that the team that threw more hits during the game lost more often than they won (Almost 60/40).

That's pretty a pretty significant swing when teams are all so close.
- BINGO!

If my team doesn't have the puck, I'd rather we hit the other team than not hit the other team.

Seriously, have spreadsheets really proven that you can't wear down the other team through body contact?

Put another way: you hit a guy with the puck, so that next time he won't get to the puck as quickly, or he'll get rid of the puck the next time he has it.

It's like you frankers never watched Lindros play...

Ovie was top 20 in forwards for hits last year, I guess he never has the puck!
- golfingsince

Oh neat. How many times were those hits on defenseman that already moved the puck?

Cause that's not the only way one can regain possession.
There's infinite ways the puck could end up on his stick.
Who said otherwise ?



Did you think this point actually made sense in the greater context of what YOU posted earlier ?

Sorry, but no
- HB77

Then what, exactly, is the point of having a bunch of guys who throw hits when you can achieve the same results more effectively through different means? Guys who lead the league in takeaways aren't usually very physical players. So why hit?

This.


He loves his advanced stats.

But I don't think he actually knows how they work.

I don't blame him for not doing his research on the subject beyond the face value numbers.
Quantitative analysis classes are the absolute worst
- HB77

I really just google random numbers and hope if I say them enough people will eventually just agree with me.

Which is the case more often than not.

A few years ago a study was down that found that the team that threw more hits during the game lost more often than they won (Almost 60/40).

That's pretty a pretty significant swing when teams are all so close.
- BINGO!

I'd like to see that study

But even still, this wouldn't suggest "hitting is bad" as was suggested.
In fact, quite the opposite. It works almost half the time.


Unless of course you're implying that no other variables could've had a factor in said results ?

I really just google random numbers and hope if I say them enough people will eventually just agree with me.
- Feds91Stammer

Finally! A post of yours that makes sense !!

If my team doesn't have the puck, I'd rather we hit the other team than not hit the other team.

Seriously, have spreadsheets really proven that you can't wear down the other team through body contact?

Put another way: you hit a guy with the puck, so that next time he won't get to the puck as quickly, or he'll get rid of the puck the next time he has it.

It's like you frankers never watched Lindros play...
- Atomic Wedgie

I would too, but i'm asking what the (frank) the point is other than to hurt people? It makes sense in a playoff series, but goal #1 if you don't have the puck should ALWAYS be to get the puck back. Bumping a guy in the corner who just made a pass is usually meaningless.

See I happen to think that making fun of dumb people makes the world a better place. That's just me though. Also, the new President is an internet Troll.

I mean, could you possibly pick a more stupid, less important, more whiny thing to cry about?
- James_Tanner

But when the people who don't agree with you and think you or your opinions are stupid and make fun of what you have to say you refuse a discussion and resort to name calling and attempts to get those people banned. For example, bringing up american politics in a site dedicated to hockey, a game dominantly played and followed by non-Americans. That, my friend is stupid, and a feeble attempt attempt at trolling.

If my team doesn't have the puck, I'd rather we hit the other team than not hit the other team.

Seriously, have spreadsheets really proven that you can't wear down the other team through body contact?

Put another way: you hit a guy with the puck, so that next time he won't get to the puck as quickly, or he'll get rid of the puck the next time he has it.

It's like you frankers never watched Lindros play...
- Atomic Wedgie

Well do you have proof that says you can wear the other team down through body contact?