Why even play games?

Just PS4 simulate everything and be done with it.

Your sycophantic adoration for stats is as blind as any the GMs you claim refuse to utilize stats and go by "look and feel".

Hockey statistics are directional, specifically because the input variables are based on inconsistent applications (the tracker of the data points, like referees, sees things differently from game to game). Furthermore, unlike baseball, where most events are unique and distinct (a pitch, a ball, a strike, a hit, a double play... etc...), in hockey events are interrelated in a more complex ecosystem given the constant flow and movement of the game.

Anyone who solely uses stats to make their point is as blind as anyone who solely uses the "look and feel" approach, as well.

Until you do both, you are just a hack presenting part of the picture.
- Mashadar

Why even play games?

Just PS4 simulate everything and be done with it.

Your sycophantic adoration for stats is as blind as any the GMs you claim refuse to utilize stats and go by "look and feel".

Hockey statistics are directional, specifically because the input variables are based on inconsistent applications (the tracker of the data points, like referees, sees things differently from game to game). Furthermore, unlike baseball, where most events are unique and distinct (a pitch, a ball, a strike, a hit, a double play... etc...), in hockey events are interrelated in a more complex ecosystem given the constant flow and movement of the game.

Anyone who solely uses stats to make their point is as blind as anyone who solely uses the "look and feel" approach, as well.

Until you do both, you are just a hack presenting part of the picture.
- Mashadar

Hitting is important, btw, it's a tactic used to separate the puck from the man so your team can possess it. It's not a form of showmanship? It's also illegal to hit someone when they don't possess the puck.
- LeftCoaster

Of course hitting is important. It's important to have a team that's difficult to play against. Saying that hitting isn't as important as it's made out to be isn't the same as saying it doesn't matter at all.

Personally, I wish someone would post a real argument, not just the opposite of what they think I meant,which they assume was an all-or-nothing answer.

Nearly all opposition to advanced stats arguments are made in this intellectually dishonest binary fashion.

Why even play games?

Just PS4 simulate everything and be done with it.

Your sycophantic adoration for stats is as blind as any the GMs you claim refuse to utilize stats and go by "look and feel".

Hockey statistics are directional, specifically because the input variables are based on inconsistent applications (the tracker of the data points, like referees, sees things differently from game to game). Furthermore, unlike baseball, where most events are unique and distinct (a pitch, a ball, a strike, a hit, a double play... etc...), in hockey events are interrelated in a more complex ecosystem given the constant flow and movement of the game.

Anyone who solely uses stats to make their point is as blind as anyone who solely uses the "look and feel" approach, as well.

Until you do both, you are just a hack presenting part of the picture.
- Mashadar

Exactly what I was talking about (RE: My last comment). People who use stats to make decisions also watch a ton of games. They just understand that of the 10 thousand or so 'events' that can be tracked in each game, you can only watch or notice a few of them.

Furthermore, if what you are saying is true, it would mean that hockey is the single exception in the history of the world where observing and measuring didn't massively improve how things were done. That's ridiculous, so, logically, we know the stats guys are onto something.

Thank God for James Tanner..love reading your blogs
- CanesFans94

Thanks

Maybe just a case of the lunatics running the asylum. You are quite comical. Never one to dissapoint with your biased views. Oh with no experience on the subject to boot. Sad
- tpd11

I wish this pile of cliches made sense to me so I could respond fairly.

I wish this pile of cliches made sense to me so I could respond fairly.
- James_Tanner

It will be HUGE!

Of course hitting is important. It's important to have a team that's difficult to play against. Saying that hitting isn't as important as it's made out to be isn't the same as saying it doesn't matter at all.

Personally, I wish someone would post a real argument, not just the opposite of what they think I meant,which they assume was an all-or-nothing answer.

Nearly all opposition to advanced stats arguments are made in this intellectually dishonest binary fashion.
- James_Tanner

This is where discussion/debate comes into play. In order for a poster to NOT get into a long-winded single story to support their statement, they simplify in the form of a short paragraph.

You blanketed a statement which stated hitting isn't important, I simply stated it is important. The stat, as it's currently tabulated by subjective individuals, is meaningless, however, you didn't explain your statement in depth.

The sole purpose of hitting is so you CAN possess the puck.

Maybe just a case of the lunatics running the asylum. You are quite comical. Never one to dissapoint with your biased views. Oh with no experience on the subject to boot. Sad
- tpd11

Well this is a poop comment.

I wish this pile of cliches made sense to me so I could respond fairly.
- James_Tanner

"It is what it is"

Of course hitting is important. It's important to have a team that's difficult to play against. Saying that hitting isn't as important as it's made out to be isn't the same as saying it doesn't matter at all.

Personally, I wish someone would post a real argument, not just the opposite of what they think I meant,which they assume was an all-or-nothing answer.

Nearly all opposition to advanced stats arguments are made in this intellectually dishonest binary fashion.
- James_Tanner

Nearly all opposition to advanced stats arguments are made in this intellectually dishonest binary fashion

Same can be said of the adv. stats nerds.

Gallant will land on his feet and be successful whereever he lands. Going forward he'll do well to understand, if not embrace the analytical aspect of the game, but this firing of a successful coach puts all the pressure squarely on the Panthers front office. Interesting move by the Panthers to go all in, where most moves are made based on analytics. Does it work and outperform everyone else or do they find analytics supplements the way things are currently done? My guess is the later because while mathematics can predict certain situations with a certain degree of success humans aren't math equations and can't be predicted with certainty. I'm interested to see if Florida will find success or become the Oakland Athletics of the hockey world.
- paulr

I believe that you are correct that Gallant will land on his feet. He is a good coach. Just hope he turns down the Canucks when they come calling, it will take a lot more than Gallant to turn them around.
As for the Panthers the pressure now fall squarely on the front office to make it work.

Kind of an apologist column. Regardless of your opinion on whether Gallant should of been fired, man the Panthers did not show a lot of class or tact on how they did it. Team Morale is going to be really low, but hey team Morale is not something you can put into a stat, so their Front Office is not worried about it.

Kind of an apologist column. Regardless of your opinion on whether Gallant should of been fired, man the Panthers did not show a lot of class or tact on how they did it. Team Morale is going to be really low, but hey team Morale is not something you can put into a stat, so their Front Office is not worried about it.
- Healthy-Scratch

How did they not show a lot of class?

Kind of an apologist column. Regardless of your opinion on whether Gallant should of been fired, man the Panthers did not show a lot of class or tact on how they did it. Team Morale is going to be really low, but hey team Morale is not something you can put into a stat, so their Front Office is not worried about it.
- Healthy-Scratch

Well, it will definitely affect their Caresi going forward...

Kind of an apologist column. Regardless of your opinion on whether Gallant should of been fired, man the Panthers did not show a lot of class or tact on how they did it. Team Morale is going to be really low, but hey team Morale is not something you can put into a stat, so their Front Office is not worried about it.
- Healthy-Scratch

Interesting point. The way Gallant was let go was pretty low class and if continued will make it difficult to attract talent, both free agents and good coachs going forward.

I wish this pile of cliches made sense to me so I could respond fairly.
- James_Tanner

I only saw one cliché.
Let me interpret it for you - You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to hockey and you are too caught up in your own opinion of yourself to realize that you are just as blind to adopting a view you're not familiar with as you say others are. You may WATCH a lot of hockey, as you say you do. But, you often make us wonder whether you've ever PLAYED at any level.

Yes, fire a good coach who was doing a good job.

Makes sense.

How did they not show a lot of class?
- Feds91Stammer

I actually agree - firing the guy at an away arena and not getting him transport home was a pretty Richard move.

Hitting is important, btw, it's a tactic used to separate the puck from the man so your team can possess it. It's not a form of showmanship? It's also illegal to hit someone when they don't possess the puck.
- LeftCoaster

Nah. You can take the puck away from somebody without hitting them. There are many many ways to gain possession. Hitting is just one, and it's the one most likely to lead to you taking a stupid penalty.

Yes, fire a good coach who was doing a good job.

Makes sense.
- Fakepartofme

He wasn't.

Their defensive schemes have been.... very not good. And he openly criticized management for not keeping the kind of players he wanted.

This is where discussion/debate comes into play. In order for a poster to NOT get into a long-winded single story to support their statement, they simplify in the form of a short paragraph.

You blanketed a statement which stated hitting isn't important, I simply stated it is important. The stat, as it's currently tabulated by subjective individuals, is meaningless, however, you didn't explain your statement in depth.

The sole purpose of hitting is so you CAN possess the puck.
- LeftCoaster

The problem is that much of the time, it doesn't. Hits often occur just after the puck has been moved, and while that slows down the guy a little, it doesn't get back possession. To make this more effective, you have to ensure proper player support whereby you're not only pressuring the guy with the puck, but also taking away his passing options or the ability to make an easy out with the puck (such as a dump) - essentially you need to be able to get a guy to where the puck is going to be after the initial hit.

I only saw one cliché.
Let me interpret it for you - You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to hockey and you are too caught up in your own opinion of yourself to realize that you are just as blind to adopting a view you're not familiar with as you say others are. You may WATCH a lot of hockey, as you say you do. But, you often make us wonder whether you've ever PLAYED at any level.
- Tonybere

Irrelevant to... well.... anything.

Do I have to find the list of coaches who never played at the pro or Junior level? because it's a long list. Almost half of NHL head coaches.

So let's get this straight....

Florida was a good team last year, made a bunch of trades, signings, etc. based on analytics, and are now a worse team. It's the coach's fault they are not as good, even though he coached them last year so they get rid of him. (I get they have had a slew of injuries that have hurt them so far, but then why fire the coach if that is the excuse?).

Chiarelli is an idiot for trading Hall for Larsson, yet the Oilers are a much improved team, particularly defensively without losing much (if anything) offensively.

Russell is a terrible player yet the Oilers are 9-4-2 with Russell and 2-5 without him. (Small sample size, but drastic enough change to think he may have something to do with it.)

Exactly what I was talking about (RE: My last comment). People who use stats to make decisions also watch a ton of games. They just understand that of the 10 thousand or so 'events' that can be tracked in each game, you can only watch or notice a few of them.

Furthermore, if what you are saying is true, it would mean that hockey is the single exception in the history of the world where observing and measuring didn't massively improve how things were done. That's ridiculous, so, logically, we know the stats guys are onto something.
- James_Tanner

Once again, you are not listening.

Baseball is an event based game, where events are easier to categorize and have more statistic validity. Hockey is not an event based game, it is a flow with multiple events occurring between stoppage of plays. That makes statistic less congruent in their nature as there is a lot more subjectivity and causality in the capturing of the data points.

I did not say that there are no meaningful statistics captured for hockey, I stated they are not as statistically valid as those captured in other sports. And as such, do not have the inherent value associated with those, such as in baseball.

Hockey advanced stats, at best, are directional. Not even close to absolute, which is what you consistently present.

I just find it interesting that you do exactly the same thing as those the non-stats people you accuse of being ignorant, but from the opposite spectrum.

Your inability to see that is what makes you a terrible writer.