I cannot disagree with the first.

On the second, I have also played, and coached (multiple sports), worked out with and studied under elite trainers, etc.

He looked like crap last year, but he looks in shape and more explosive this year. But, I will grant, maybe not as strong in the corners, which could be due to a weight loss that appears to my eye anyway.

But I will repeat, I have not heard or seen anything that proves there is meaningful physical deterioration. At this point, the best you have is a completely subjective set of opinions, with lots of variance I might add.
- John Jaeckel

As an elite athlete who has access to elite training and facilities I don't think losing some weight and becoming leaner should result in strength loss. He has been pushed around and knocked down a lot more this year. Leaning up shouldn't mean sacrificing core or leg strength. My question would be why did he decide to slim down a bit? Less wear and tear? Or is he trying to improve quickness? You've see that trend with Lebron and Aaron Rodgers too. Both slimmed down. Unless there is a medical reason or it's a performance issue I'm not really a supporter of that movement.

I believe he pretty much singlehandedly tied up game 5 (2 goals in the last two minutes) to send it to OT which unfortunately the Ducks won on Bleseky's goal...pretty sure that's how game 5 went.

He scored the first two goals in game 7 of that series and the Hawks never looked back.
- HawkintheD

Thanks, and no offense to Jack. I just think the precipitous physical fall off theory lacks the necessary evidence at this point. And I think we all know his character well enough to not say he's dogging it.

They have nearly identical QoC and QoT. Kane scores more. Kane is more of a driver. Toews is more of a passenger. Kane is elite. Toews is very good.
- Feds91Stammer

I saw the move JJ was referring to and thought ok he's back. I think it was just before the circus trip. But it was one and done. He got his center of gravity real low and wiggled through the defense. I couldn't find the post from earlier but the guy who suggested his back was hurting might have something there. Tough to get leverage with a sore back or shoulder.

His goals were about average for him. His assists were off. Which suggests what?
- John Jaeckel

Lines-mates that aren't burying chances. Too many one and done without enough happening to challenge the goalies.

Toews is one of the top centers in the league. He plays PP, PK, and often is either playing against the opposing teams top offensive center/line or against a defensive center/line whose main (sometimes only) focus of the night is shutting down the Toews line.

His offensive numbers never were spectacular. Some of that depends on his wings (who they are and how often they change). His plus/minus numbers are always very good. His FO % is always among the best. His leadership is off the charts.

His contract was based on three things. What he had done for the club in the past, his potential going forward and the forecast of the salary cap at the time his deal was signed. It was on the high end of fair at the time he signed his contract. Knowing what we know about the salary cap situation now, after he signed his contract, it looks too high by $1mil to $2mil per year.

He would be a #1 center on 25 teams (or more). If you put Kane and Panarin on his line they would be among the best in the league. If you have Kane or Hossa on his RW and lesser players on his right wing the Hawks still dress two very good lines every game.

His shooting percentage is down, but that usually evens out during a full season. By year end his numbers should be about normal, a little better if one of the younger players develop during the year, a little lower if no one is a good fit.

I have no problem with Toews (and would not be surprised if he got hot in the next month or so).

Do you know what documentaries? I definitely want to watch them.
- j.boyd919

Sorry, was in a two hour meeting of nothing useful... And just grab the ones before or after Pens games on Roots. Whenever they have up one the hour before, if its one on Mario it'll usually have a clip or two of an old staffer laughing how at one point they were not going to take him.

As an elite athlete who has access to elite training and facilities I don't think losing some weight and becoming leaner should result in strength loss. He has been pushed around and knocked down a lot more this year. Leaning up shouldn't mean sacrificing core or leg strength. My question would be why did he decide to slim down a bit? Less wear and tear? Or is he trying to improve quickness? You've see that trend with Lebron and Aaron Rodgers too. Both slimmed down. Unless there is a medical reason or it's a performance issue I'm not really a supporter of that movement.
- bhawks2241

Could be a lot of reasons, including those. Or a knee problem. So who knows.

Lines-mates that aren't burying chances. Too many one and done without enough happening to challenge the goalies.
- breadbag

In a nutshell.

Sorry, was in a two hour meeting of nothing useful... And just grab the ones before or after Pens games on Roots. Whenever they have up one the hour before, if its one on Mario it'll usually have a clip or two of an old staffer laughing how at one point they were not going to take him.
- Guile

I've been lookin for over an hour and I can't find that anywhere. Just finished TSN's "Playing to Lose"

His goals were about average for him. His assists were off. Which suggests what?
- John Jaeckel

Since the rest of this blog consists of everyone beating a dead horse, I'll beat mine:

The last 3 years before this one, his total goals were the same - 28 each year.

5X5 goals were down from 20 to 17 to 10.

His PP goals were about the same (5-6-6), skating with "elite talent" mostly (Kane, Panarin, Sharp, two quality defensemen) with no drop-off in talent on the ice with him.

His SH goals were about the same (3-2-4), a more individualistic effort than the other types of scoring).

His OT goals increased dramatically (0-1-5), probably reflecting going from 4x4 to 3x3.

EN goals also increased - I'll chalk that up to "luck of the draw".

So - the only goal-scoring area of his game that decreased over the last 3 years was the one that had a dramatic drop-off in talent on his line.

I've been lookin for over an hour and I can't find that anywhere. Just finished TSN's "Playing to Lose"
- j.boyd919

I can't help you with the names of the timeslot filler programs they put on Root. They are mostly background noise to me since I have seen them far too many times. Same as those rain delay programs for Pirates games. Feel like they only have 3 different ones for how many times I've seen them.

Since the rest of this blog consists of everyone beating a dead horse, I'll beat mine:

The last 3 years before this one, his total goals were the same - 28 each year.

5X5 goals were down from 20 to 17 to 10.

His PP goals were about the same (5-6-6), skating with "elite talent" mostly (Kane, Panarin, Sharp, two quality defensemen) with no drop-off in talent on the ice with him.

His SH goals were about the same (3-2-4), a more individualistic effort than the other types of scoring).

His OT goals increased dramatically (0-1-5), probably reflecting going from 4x4 to 3x3.

EN goals also increased - I'll chalk that up to "luck of the draw".

So - the only goal-scoring area of his game that decreased over the last 3 years was the one that had a dramatic drop-off in talent on his line.
- StLBravesFan

Well said!

Since the rest of this blog consists of everyone beating a dead horse, I'll beat mine:

The last 3 years before this one, his total goals were the same - 28 each year.

5X5 goals were down from 20 to 17 to 10.

His PP goals were about the same (5-6-6), skating with "elite talent" mostly (Kane, Panarin, Sharp, two quality defensemen) with no drop-off in talent on the ice with him.

His SH goals were about the same (3-2-4), a more individualistic effort than the other types of scoring).

His OT goals increased dramatically (0-1-5), probably reflecting going from 4x4 to 3x3.

EN goals also increased - I'll chalk that up to "luck of the draw".

So - the only goal-scoring area of his game that decreased over the last 3 years was the one that had a dramatic drop-off in talent on his line.
- StLBravesFan

Sage, as always. (slow hand clap)

Problem is Toews never should have been compared to Sid.
Sid had Geno Letang on his team, phenomenal players and future HoFers, but Geno doesn't really play on the same line, and Letang's a defender..

Toews has future HoFers Kane, Keith, Hossa. Then we add Sharp, Seabrooke, Ladd, Byflugein, etc etc.

Toews is great, but he was never in the same category as Crosby, and it was really never close.

I cannot disagree with the first.

On the second, I have also played, and coached (multiple sports), worked out with and studied under elite trainers, etc.

He looked like crap last year, but he looks in shape and more explosive this year. But, I will grant, maybe not as strong in the corners, which could be due to a weight loss that appears to my eye anyway.

But I will repeat, I have not heard or seen anything that proves there is meaningful physical deterioration. At this point, the best you have is a completely subjective set of opinions, with lots of variance I might add.
- John Jaeckel

I'm with you on the weight loss. When I saw him do an interview towards the start of the season, he looked significantly different--almost less healthy in a way. Add to that the strange offseason of not being involved in anything and I sort of thought maybe he was dealing with an illness of some kind.

That being said...

It could totally just be everyone reading too far into things. It sort of feels like when Lebron lost weight and there were all those rumors about a possible sickness or lingering injury, etc. But in the end, he lost it in order to become more nimble and not have to carry all that weight up and down the court as he ages, because he has so many miles on him already.

The difference between the Lebron thing and Toews, though, is Lebron really hasn't lost strength or prowess on the court.

I'm with you on the weight loss. When I saw him do an interview towards the start of the season, he looked significantly different--almost less healthy in a way. Add to that the strange offseason of not being involved in anything and I sort of thought maybe he was dealing with an illness of some kind.

That being said...

It could totally just be everyone reading too far into things. It sort of feels like when Lebron lost weight and there were all those rumors about a possible sickness or lingering injury, etc. But in the end, he lost it in order to become more nimble and not have to carry all that weight up and down the court as he ages, because he has so many miles on him already.

The difference between the Lebron thing and Toews, though, is Lebron really hasn't lost strength or prowess on the court.
- Hank3Henshaw

Isn't Toews a recent (and I don't know HOW recent) convert to "healthy eating" - which seems to result in weight loss (hopefully not strength loss, too)?

Since the rest of this blog consists of everyone beating a dead horse, I'll beat mine:

The last 3 years before this one, his total goals were the same - 28 each year.

5X5 goals were down from 20 to 17 to 10.

His PP goals were about the same (5-6-6), skating with "elite talent" mostly (Kane, Panarin, Sharp, two quality defensemen) with no drop-off in talent on the ice with him.

His SH goals were about the same (3-2-4), a more individualistic effort than the other types of scoring).

His OT goals increased dramatically (0-1-5), probably reflecting going from 4x4 to 3x3.

EN goals also increased - I'll chalk that up to "luck of the draw".

So - the only goal-scoring area of his game that decreased over the last 3 years was the one that had a dramatic drop-off in talent on his line.
- StLBravesFan

What about his overall Shots on Goal, shot attempts, possession numbers, ect? He clearly can still finish like he has his entire career, but is he generating the same type of scoring chances on a game-to-game basis?

Problem is Toews never should have been compared to Sid.
Sid had Geno Letang on his team, phenomenal players and future HoFers, but Geno doesn't really play on the same line, and Letang's a defender..

Toews has future HoFers Kane, Keith, Hossa. Then we add Sharp, Seabrooke, Ladd, Byflugein, etc etc.

Toews is great, but he was never in the same category as Crosby, and it was really never close.
- Danformo

I don't think there was ever a debate in terms of offensive skill and talent, which is the only area Sid is better. The debate IIRC was over the question of who one would chose to build a team around... At the time it was 2-3 Cups vs 1 Cup and clearly Toews appeared to be the captain with superior leadership and intangibles...

I don't think there was ever a debate in terms of offensive skill and talent, which is the only area Sid is better. The debate IIRC was over the question of who one would chose to build a team around... At the time it was 2-3 Cups vs 1 Cup and clearly Toews appeared to be the captain with superior leadership and intangibles...
- busmaster

Anyone that ever thought Toews was a better option for anything over Crosby should be medicated.

What about his overall Shots on Goal, shot attempts, possession numbers, ect? He clearly can still finish like he has his entire career, but is he generating the same type of scoring chances on a game-to-game basis?
- EnzoD

OK - the last three years (and these are all situations):

2013-14: SAT = 284 SOG = 193 (67.9%) Goal% = 14.5%
2014-15: SAT = 304 SOG = 192 (63.2%) Goal% = 14.6%
2015-16: SAT = 278 SOG = 179 (64.4%) Goal% = 15.6%

So - seems that shots, accuracy, scoring ability seem about the same.

I don't trust this stat because it seems to be so subjective and arena selective, but interesting that Hits were way up last year - and have been increasing the past several years - from 29 to 56 to 81.

Also, blocked shots have increased - from 20 down to 16 then up to 38.

Both hits and blocks were the highest of his career last year.

I don't think there was ever a debate in terms of offensive skill and talent, which is the only area Sid is better. The debate IIRC was over the question of who one would chose to build a team around... At the time it was 2-3 Cups vs 1 Cup and clearly Toews appeared to be the captain with superior leadership and intangibles...
- busmaster

And healthier... being able to play almost every game of the season is a damn big factor

Isn't Toews a recent (and I don't know HOW recent) convert to "healthy eating" - which seems to result in weight loss (hopefully not strength loss, too)?
- StLBravesFan

Good call. I have heard he's a big believer and team member for Onnit.

https://www.onnit.com/

Funny thing, I never played at a high level at all, but a few years ago, I was trying to get into the best shape I could. I wanted to be really healthy, as well as have an edge on guys in my mens league (feel free to laugh). Anyways, I started working out and using a whey protein powder for recovery, etc. After a few weeks, I noticed a change in my body. Just wasn't feeling right. I made an appointment with my doctor and I brought the powder. He asked if I had made any changes to my diet, I showed him the can and he asked if I knew what was in it. I didn't and he told me neither did he. I guess a lot of those powders/supplements and so forth aren't regulated by the FDA and it's sort of unknown what's always in them.

I tossed the can right there and just focused on eating smarter and ended up feeling a lot better.

Now, that stuff works differently for everyone and a lot of people use it and it works for them, but it just didn't work for me and I stay clear of it from now on.

Not saying Onnit is a factor, but I think we all know that powders/supplements/etc. can effect the body in different ways-- some positive, some negative. It all depends on the person.

I don't care who is his LW and RW. Toews needs to step it up! His play is not acceptable. It's frustrating because he should be in his prime and I know he can do better offensive, but right now he doesn't deserve the 10,5Mil.

I don't care who is his LW and RW. Toews needs to step it up! His play is not acceptable. It's frustrating because he should be in his prime and I know he can do better offensive, but right now he doesn't deserve the 10,5Mil.
- PetterKane

It's cause he ain't that good.

So Toews is questionable for tomorrow and the Hawks are playing in the trap game back from a long road trip. This could be interesting tomorrow, since the Panthers just got a wake up call with the coaching change.