He was looking faster during the World Cup and I thought it was noticeable more than a few times.
- breadbag

I don't think the wc was a very accurate measuring stick

It's all valid debate.

I'm not buying the "hard miles" angle until I hear that there is some kind of degenerative condition—or degenerative effect from some previous injury.

The concussion angle is certainly a legit consideration.

But I will just throw this out.

We ALL noticed a significant drop off from the last game in July 2015 to the opening puck drop in October 2015. I seem to recall him taking over the WCF at times that Spring. Coming up huge against a team that played a very hard, heavy style.

Did Toews fall off a cliff physically that summer or did something else happen?

- j.boyd919

Quite untrue... I do believe most Flyers, Rangers, and Capitols fans said Towes just to spite Crosby fans

Quite untrue... I do believe most Flyers, Rangers, and Capitols fans said Towes just to spite Crosby fans
- Guile

Uh, no. Toews was never, is never going to be, the hockey player Crosby is on an off-night.

Nice write up, JJ.

I've always been a Toews fan, but I didn't agree with the big contract--for him or Kane. Just too risky and not athlete is really worth that in my opinion.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I do think there's been something going on with JT the past couple years. What it might be, I don't know. Something just seems "off" about his game. Add to that, the strange offseason this past summer where he was completely removed from anything Hawks-related and totally off the radar.

I know he's played through some rough injuries over his time, but I do have to wonder if there's something going on with him, because he just doesn't seem like the same player. He does a lot that stays off the scoring sheet, but it just seems different lately.

Crosby had a "half season from hell" last year. His numbers were waaaay down and he didn't look like the same player. The coach and system were a terrible fit too.

It's hard to imagine these great players are human and they struggle every once and while. Crosby came out and admitted he was having confidence issues which was kind of a shocking admission considering his great career.

Anyway, I'm sure JT will return to his former self soon enough. Just like Crosby, It may take awhile however. He's 28 not 38.

Uh, no. Toews was never, is never going to be, the hockey player Crosby is on an off-night.
- Blackstrom2

who cares about who is better. they are both elite players in the league- maybe the two most complete. any team would love to have either of them on their own teams. they are different players who are great for their own individual reasons, but more than anything, they make their own teams two of the best in the league year in and year out.

Nice write up, JJ.

I've always been a Toews fan, but I didn't agree with the big contract--for him or Kane. Just too risky and not athlete is really worth that in my opinion.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I do think there's been something going on with JT the past couple years. What it might be, I don't know. Something just seems "off" about his game. Add to that, the strange offseason this past summer where he was completely removed from anything Hawks-related and totally off the radar.

I know he's played through some rough injuries over his time, but I do have to wonder if there's something going on with him, because he just doesn't seem like the same player. He does a lot that stays off the scoring sheet, but it just seems different lately.
- Hank3Henshaw

the contracts are the cost of winning three cups before they were 27 years old of age. if the salary cap ever went up a significant amount, those two contracts wouldn't be so bad when comparing to what it is at now. also that is what the going rate is for two of the top ten players in the NHL. at the time of the contract, maybe two of the top five players.

Great.
F'ing.
Observation.

And I think the pressure comes mostly from Toews himself. Though I do know he had made it known to management in years past that he needed some relief on those draw situations. Which was why they went out and pursued Kesler and then Richards ibn 2014.
- John Jaeckel

the contracts are the cost of winning three cups before they were 27 years old of age. if the salary cap ever went up a significant amount, those two contracts wouldn't be so bad when comparing to what it is at now. also that is what the going rate is for two of the top ten players in the NHL. at the time of the contract, maybe two of the top five players.
- frafra

I forgot to add to this as well...they are both big time playoff performers. any team would love to add either of these players to their team. I couldn't imagine what they would have gotten on the open market if teams had been able to make offers to them. Just my opinion.

Uh, no. Toews was never, is never going to be, the hockey player Crosby is on an off-night.
- Blackstrom2

The one Capitols fan on here has to show up to buzzkill me..

It's all valid debate.

I'm not buying the "hard miles" angle until I hear that there is some kind of degenerative condition—or degenerative effect from some previous injury.

The concussion angle is certainly a legit consideration.

But I will just throw this out.

We ALL noticed a significant drop off from the last game in July 2015 to the opening puck drop in October 2015. I seem to recall him taking over the WCF at times that Spring. Coming up huge against a team that played a very hard, heavy style.

Did Toews fall off a cliff physically that summer or did something else happen?
- John Jaeckel

Anytime I hear the words, "Toews and upper body injury" I immediately get concerned about yet another concussion.

Question: Does he seem like the same person in interviews and in advertisements that he was when he was younger?

I live near DC so I do not see him very often, but he seems "off" when he speaks; almost slow and searching for words. Then again this could be a case of "fan paranoia."

The one Capitols fan on here has to show up to buzzkill me..
- Guile

You should try the Toews-Ovechkin debate sometime with a Caps fan. I get that one occasionally.

I see Toews as the same player he always was.

The League is younger and a lot faster and his moves are old. Still a great player but have a look around this league these days....it's changed and is not the same league it was in 2013 and 2015.

You should try the Toews-Ovechkin debate sometime with a Caps fan. I get that one occasionally.
- hpk90

Different positions, and VASTLY different play styles. Nearly debating a Dman vs a Winger with how far apart they play and act.

At least Towes and Crosby were both all around Centers.

Different positions, and VASTLY different play styles. Nearly debating a Dman vs a Winger with how far apart they play and act.

At least Towes and Crosby were both all around Centers.
- Guile

Toews was never Bettman's pet though. Crosby was part of a dirty, cheating lottery that never should have happened.

Toews was never Bettman's pet though. Crosby was part of a dirty, cheating lottery that never should have happened.
- powerenforcer

So sad... when a team who was last wins the lotto... its called cheating. When teams who weren't last win it, people don't cry fowl play.

"And I think the pressure comes mostly from Toews himself. Though I do know he had made it known to management in years past that he needed some relief on those draw situations. Which was why they went out and pursued Kesler and then Richards ibn 2014. "

... and you have to think his recent absence has Stan thinking about who the next Richards/Handzus/Vermette will be in February.

The Hawks really need some help down the middle especially with Kruger's FO prowess not looking like it used to be (wrist maybe?).

Adding a solid vet at centre would allow Toews to start more in the O-Zone and not have to be concerned about being the only player able to win a meaningful draw.

So sad... when a team who was last wins the lotto... its called cheating. When teams who weren't last win it, people don't cry fowl play.
- Guile

There's an awesome documentary about how the Pens legit tanked in the 80's to get Mario. Some of the stuff management did was legit crazy...Calling up guys who were basically mens league players. One of the Penguins guys said there were two guys at one point who couldn't skate backwards. Haha.

Honestly the only reason there was a Crosby V. Toews debate was because Crosby missed so much god damn time between 10' and 13'. Toews got his Smythe and joined the Triple cold club in 2010, as well as beating out crosby in vancouver for the best forward in the tournament (Crosby was healthy in 09/10 fwiw).

Then in 10/11 crosby played half the season, and the pens missed the playoffs completely. Then 11/12 where crosby played 22 games. and then crosby played the full lockout shortened season (36GP of 48) where he was extremely effective but didn't win any major trophies.

So the comparison was really to a lack of crosby than to crosby in hindsight.

There's an awesome documentary about how the Pens legit tanked in the 80's to get Mario. Some of the stuff management did was legit crazy...Calling up guys who were basically mens league players. One of the Penguins guys said there were two guys at one point who couldn't skate backwards. Haha.
- Hank3Henshaw

Oh, I won't argue the tanking methods... except you DO need to fact check the "tanking for Mario" claim. They were near 50-50 on taking him or the guy who went 2nd that year for the bulk of the season in GM meetings. And that is also quite documented.

who cares about who is better. they are both elite players in the league- maybe the two most complete. any team would love to have either of them on their own teams. they are different players who are great for their own individual reasons, but more than anything, they make their own teams two of the best in the league year in and year out.
- frafra

Toews and elite should never be in the same sentence.

Oh, I won't argue the tanking methods... except you DO need to fact check the "tanking for Mario" claim. They were near 50-50 on taking him or the guy who went 2nd that year for the bulk of the season in GM meetings. And that is also quite documented.
- Guile

Uh.. I just watched the documentary on Pittsburgh and they said there was no doubt in their mind they were taking Mario and it wasn't even a question who was going first...

One thing is certain...this article and the comments are NOT helping me forget that hit he took last year along the boards where the player bench door was open and he got crunched into the opening.

Uh.. I just watched the documentary on Pittsburgh and they said there was no doubt in their mind they were taking Mario and it wasn't even a question who was going first...
- j.boyd919

Yeah, try watching ANY other documentary than the one they just put out. Every single one laughs about how they were not certain he was their guy until a few weeks before the draft.