- Yeti1181

And (frank) you guys, I'm saying we see the birth of 0ndersen tonight.
- BetterCallSaul

I can't imagine the Penguins trading Maatta, nor do I remember Babschlong singing his praises, but I'll bite.

What do you think Pittsburgh's needs are, as a fan?
- BetterCallSaul

Patience is growing thin for Maatta. He's been getting bumped down to the third pairing, minutes being cut. It's not that he's regressed, but the Pens system under Sullivan is too fast for him. Foot-speed is his major issue, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't excel on another team .

Pens needs would be comparable return; a dman who not necessarily better, but a better fit, or moving him to make room for another deal.

There have been rumors that the Pens are talking to ANA regarding Fowler(which wouldn't include Maatta), but would mean the Pens need to move Maatta in another deal.

I would send him to TOR for a decent pick/prospect package. Maybe Rychel as part of the package.

I would trade for Fowler, not Troubadour though. Unless Winnipeg is will to take Gardiner as the main piece I don't see anything of fair value I'd be willing to offer them if I'm in charge of the Leafs. Fowler you can probably get. I'm firmly on the Trade JVR side of line in the sand. Straight across I think the Leafs would be seen as the team that gave up more, but if you include a cap dump and a prospect coming back to Toronto then I don't imagine many Leafs fans would be unhappy with that deal.
- BetterCallSaul

I think JVR could fetch something a little better.

Patience is growing thin for Maatta. He's been getting bumped down to the third pairing, minutes being cut. It's not that he's regressed, but the Pens system under Sullivan is too fast for him. Foot-speed is his major issue, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't excel on another team .

Pens needs would be comparable return; a dman who not necessarily better, but a better fit, or moving him to make room for another deal.

There have been rumors that the Pens are talking to ANA regarding Fowler(which wouldn't include Maatta), but would mean the Pens need to move Maatta in another deal.

I would send him to TOR for a decent pick/prospect package. Maybe Rychel as part of the package.
- Rinosaur

You definitely need gardiner then

Edit: Bruce will not allow trade of Rychel, you may get banned for even suggesting it.

Patience is growing thin for Maatta. He's been getting bumped down to the third pairing, minutes being cut. It's not that he's regressed, but the Pens system under Sullivan is too fast for him. Foot-speed is his major issue, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't excel on another team .

Pens needs would be comparable return; a dman who not necessarily better, but a better fit, or moving him to make room for another deal.

There have been rumors that the Pens are talking to ANA regarding Fowler(which wouldn't include Maatta), but would mean the Pens need to move Maatta in another deal.

I would send him to TOR for a decent pick/prospect package. Maybe Rychel as part of the package.
- Rinosaur

Really? He leads the Pens' D in shot attempt % so far this season.

Anyway, like Yeti points out - Gardiner has excellent foot speed.

Patience is growing thin for Maatta. He's been getting bumped down to the third pairing, minutes being cut. It's not that he's regressed, but the Pens system under Sullivan is too fast for him. Foot-speed is his major issue, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't excel on another team .

Pens needs would be comparable return; a dman who not necessarily better, but a better fit, or moving him to make room for another deal.

There have been rumors that the Pens are talking to ANA regarding Fowler(which wouldn't include Maatta), but would mean the Pens need to move Maatta in another deal.

I would send him to TOR for a decent pick/prospect package. Maybe Rychel as part of the package.
- Rinosaur

If foot speed is an issue then I can't imagine Toronto would be too interested. The building blocks of this team are all exceptional skaters, and the secondary pieces need to augment that.

I would trade for Fowler, not Troubadour though. Unless Winnipeg is will to take Gardiner as the main piece I don't see anything of fair value I'd be willing to offer them if I'm in charge of the Leafs. Fowler you can probably get. I'm firmly on the Trade JVR side of line in the sand. Straight across I think the Leafs would be seen as the team that gave up more, but if you include a cap dump and a prospect coming back to Toronto then I don't imagine many Leafs fans would be unhappy with that deal.
- BetterCallSaul

I agree with you - Fowler makes more sense because there's not much difference between them, and the Jets think they should get superstar return for Trouba (no thanks) I disagree with the idea of trading JVR for Fowler for two reasons. First - no cap relief for Ducks - which is why they will trade Fowler or someone else, two JVR - is a big overpayment for Fowler. I think rather a minor league (medium quality prospect) player, a second from next year (we have two) and Holland. Ducks would like a left winger and he's cheap. Remember they need cap relief JVR makes more than Fowler.

Really? He leads the team in shot attempt % so far this season.

Anyway, like Yeti points out - Gardiner has excellent foot speed.
- 1979AD

He's made of paper and has not progressed as much as they've hoped.

Decent player but he's paid heavily considering what he ends up bringing to the team imo.

I can't believe our two 19 yo AHL d-men (Nielsen and Dermott) are doing so well in their first AHL seasons!

Really? He leads the team in shot attempt % so far this season.

Anyway, like Yeti points out - Gardiner has excellent foot speed.
- 1979AD

I'm not one to rely on advanced stats, but he's suffered under other stats. Plus if you watch, while he does still do some great things on the ice, his foot speed fails him. You have to consider the speed of his linemates.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Gardiner/Maatta swap.

I agree with you - Fowler makes more sense because there's not much difference between them, and the Jets think they should get superstar return for Trouba (no thanks) I disagree with the idea of trading JVR for Fowler for two reasons. First - no cap relief for Ducks - which is why they will trade Fowler or someone else, two JVR - is a big overpayment for Fowler. I think rather a minor league (medium quality prospect) player, a second from next year (we have two) and Holland. Ducks would like a left winger and he's cheap. Remember they need cap relieft JVR makes more than Fowler.
- winsix

Yeah, any deal surrounding Fowler and JVR would need to include a cap dump going to Toronto. Which is why Stoner keeps getting thrown in to deals on this board.

He's made of paper and has not progressed as much as they've hoped.

Decent player but he's paid heavily considering what he ends up bringing to the team imo.
- Scabeh

It's really hard to gauge him. I'm a firm believer in player-usage and how they fit into systems.

On a more defensive-minded team, Maatta will thrive. On a team that relies on foot-speed? Not so much.

I'm not one to rely on advanced stats, but he's suffered under other stats. Plus if you watch, while he does still do some great things on the ice, his foot speed fails him. You have to consider the speed of his linemates.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Gardiner/Maatta swap.
- Rinosaur

Well Gardiner is fine on the speed department.

How do you feel about the ability to make boneheaded plays, create turnovers and lose the puck in your own zone?

Because if you don't mind them, well GARDINER IS THE MAN FOR YOU!

French is such a Habs fan..

8-4 Matthews 1 PPG -4

8ndersen makes us all long for Bernier

*Code*
- AdamFrench

It's really hard to gauge him. I'm a firm believer in player-usage and how they fit into systems.

On a more defensive-minded team, Maatta will thrive. On a team that relies on foot-speed? Not so much.
- Rinosaur

Perhaps you're right.

I had high hopes for him 2 years ago...

They have diminished considerably since then.... of course injuries probably didn't help.

I'm not one to rely on advanced stats, but he's suffered under other stats. Plus if you watch, while he does still do some great things on the ice, his foot speed fails him. You have to consider the speed of his linemates.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Gardiner/Maatta swap.
- Rinosaur

That's interesting. I held him in higher esteem than that. Haven't seen the Pens play since the SCF though.

What are the D pairings right now (assuming Letang is playing)?

It's really hard to gauge him. I'm a firm believer in player-usage and how they fit into systems.

On a more defensive-minded team, Maatta will thrive. On a team that relies on foot-speed? Not so much.
- Rinosaur

If this is true, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Well Gardiner is fine on the speed department.

How do you feel about the ability to make boneheaded plays, create turnovers and lose the puck in your own zone?

Because if you don't mind them, well GARDINER IS THE MAN FOR YOU!
- Scabeh

I admittedly don't know A LOT about Gardiner, but the Pens' system seems to work well for these type of guys.

You look at Daley and Schultz, players not known for their defensive prowess, yet Sully gets them to play in a manner to the fits the team's system.

I admittedly don't know A LOT about Gardiner, but the Pens' system seems to work well for these type of guys.

You look at Daley and Schultz, players not known for their defensive prowess, yet Sully gets them to play in a manner to the fits the team's system.
- Rinosaur

Gards and Schultz are homies from college, too.

French is such a Habs fan..

8-4 Matthews 1 PPG -4

8ndersen makes us all long for Bernier

*Code*
- AdamFrench


- bixll

HUGE Habs fan. Uuuge

If this is true, you're barking up the wrong tree.
- 1979AD

Well that's NOW. Your team is finding their way. Babcock will eventually have your team slowing things up and playing more systematic hockey.

Well Gardiner is fine on the speed department.

How do you feel about the ability to make boneheaded plays, create turnovers and lose the puck in your own zone?

Because if you don't mind them, well GARDINER IS THE MAN FOR YOU!
- Scabeh

It's getting to the point where I really feel like I need to see this team without Gardiner and Bozak on it. Seeing either player bothers me. And as a bonus the ghost of Honest Hockey can be put to rest.

HUGE Habs fan. Uuuge
- AdamFrench

It's getting to the point where I really feel like I need to see this team without Gardiner and Bozak on it. Seeing either player bothers me. And as a bonus the ghost of Honest Hockey can be put to rest.
- BetterCallSaul