Can't fathom how a top 6OA player is suited to the fourth line instead of being developed as a top six in the minors... Get a ufa to play 7-10 minutes a night like cracker from last season... Why waste this guy's season and talent playing limited minutes...
- kaptaan

Yup! Thats why you have Skille on the team to play those 7 minutes a night and contribute where he and how he can.

Play JV 20 minutes a night in Utica. He has the tools he just has to put it all together.

Yup! Thats why you have Skille on the team to play those 7 minutes a night and contribute where he and how he can.

Play JV 20 minutes a night in Utica. He has the tools he just has to put it all together.
- mauryballstein

Kesler spent over 100 games in the AHL, including scoring 30 goals in a season. As for the Sedin's they were scorers and thats all they worked on, they didnt do the 4th line grinder thing JV is doing, totally different
- WhiteLie

the hundred games is a little inflated due to the lockout season the bulk of them occured in, he very well could have been in the nhl if not for the lockout

No way would WD play him now if he wasn't NHL ready. Look at Tree he put Biega in instead of Him for that reason and there are NHL experienced Vets on Utica.
- Nuck4U

I don't know, isn't Stecher set to debut in the NHL on our top line and top PP?

Personally I'm seeing the same confused messages of the past few years about development vs. winning.

I really hope Stecher does well because I'm not sure this team has the patience to let cream rise to the top naturally.

Virtanen has never seemed out of place in the NHL nor has he been totally outclassed for a very young player, the argument for icetime seems to be several peoples "bone " to keep picking at , which IMO is purely speculative until we see a larger sample size of the impact being with the pros has on his development/maturity
- onesmallleap

Well said....but people want to label because they have expectations not being met

No way would WD play him now if he wasn't NHL ready. Look at Tree he put Biega in instead of Him for that reason and there are NHL experienced Vets on Utica.
- Nuck4U

His body is NHL ready, his mind is not IMO.

I don't know, isn't Stecher set to debut in the NHL on our top line and top PP?

Personally I'm seeing the same confused messages of the past few years about development vs. winning.

I really hope Stecher does well because I'm not sure this team has the patience to let cream rise to the top naturally.
- belcherbd

That's because Stecher would be on this team if they didn't think they would lose Biega on waivers and Tree to KHL if sent down

the hundred games is a little inflated due to the lockout season the bulk of them occured in, he very well could have been in the nhl if not for the lockout
- onesmallleap

The lockout helped a lot of players, in fact some have argued that maybe that's one of the reason the 2003 draft looks like one of deepest ever.

I agree that Kesler likely would of spent at the very least some of that season in the NHL, especially when you consider he spent ~30 games in the NHL the year before. He also likely would of spent some of that time in the AHL.

Most players do that, they jump back and forth between both leagues as they are learning. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

That's because Stecher would be on this team if they didn't think they would lose Biega on waivers and Tree to KHL if sent down
- Nuck4U

Perhaps, but if he's as good as you suggest they wouldn't be worrying about Biega and if Pedan went unclaimed you really think Biega gets snagged?

THat was a lockout year ... in there right ...
- Nuck4U

Well aware of that, but considering everyone's best young players were in the AHL that year it has been considered by many to have helped that draft year become one of the best in terms of overall depth.

My point still remains that Kesler and the Sedin's had offensive capabilities that were honed in professional leagues, and IMO it would be best for him to learn to put it all together in the AHL since he is now eligible

Yup! Thats why you have Skille on the team to play those 7 minutes a night and contribute where he and how he can.

Play JV 20 minutes a night in Utica. He has the tools he just has to put it all together.
- mauryballstein

Okay so he shows it in the AHL...like he did in junior that gets you an opportunity to be in the line up with the Canucks. Which he has now. That is why either way as things are he still would have to learn doing it at the NHL level. If WD doesn't play him or leave him in the press box like Tree then AHL becomes best option to get the green light to play again.

Perhaps, but if he's as good as you suggest they wouldn't be worrying about Biega and if Pedan went unclaimed you really think Biega gets snagged?
- belcherbd

THat was what the Canucks were saying that Biega had more value on the waiver wire at the time

The lockout helped a lot of players, in fact some have argued that maybe that's one of the reason the 2003 draft looks like one of deepest ever.

I agree that Kesler likely would of spent at the very least some of that season in the NHL, especially when you consider he spent ~30 games in the NHL the year before. He also likely would of spent some of that time in the AHL.

Most players do that, they jump back and forth between both leagues as they are learning. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.
- belcherbd

My point too, nothing wrong with sending Jake back and forth. Bring him up when there is an opportunity for him to play a scoring role, send him back as needed

My point too, nothing wrong with sending Jake back and forth. Bring him up when there is an opportunity for him to play a scoring role, send him back as needed
- WhiteLie

agreed

Well aware of that, but considering everyone's best young players were in the AHL that year it has been considered by many to have helped that draft year become one of the best in terms of overall depth.

My point still remains that Kesler and the Sedin's had offensive capabilities that were honed in professional leagues, and IMO it would be best for him to learn to put it all together in the AHL since he is now eligible
- WhiteLie

Offensive potential at each level is honed at that level it seems. Players will tell you that it is the defensive part of the game that they learn to get the call up to the next level. Then they have to learn how to pull off the offensive side.

He may yet go to the AHL but that is because they believe they have better options then JV to play minutes. So far that's not the case. In the mean time JV can work on putting it together at the NHL level.

Offensive potential at each level is honed at that level it seems. Players will tell you that it is the defensive part of the game that they learn to get the call up to the next level. Then they have to learn how to pull off the offensive side.

He may yet go to the AHL but that is because they believe they have better options then JV to play minutes. So far that's not the case. In the mean time JV can work on putting it together at the NHL level.
- Nuck4U

The fact that he sits for prolonged periods of time towards the end of games suggests he can't be trusted defensively. Once he figures that out in the AHL, the points will come just getting the ice-time at the NHL level.

JV is the type of player that can capitalize on opportunities created by blocked shots, turnovers....etc. Once he shows he can contribute at both ends of the ice, he'll be given a full time opportunity in the top 6.

Okay so he shows it in the AHL...like he did in junior that gets you an opportunity to be in the line up with the Canucks. Which he has now. That is why either way as things are he still would have to learn doing it at the NHL level. If WD doesn't play him or leave him in the press box like Tree then AHL becomes best option to get the green light to play again.
- Nuck4U

Agreed. In the post game interviews I think it was one of the Sedins who said "It's all about confidence" It looks like he is lacking it at the moment and the AHL would be the best place to regain it

The fact that he sits for prolonged periods of time towards the end of games suggests he can't be trusted defensively. Once he figures that out in the AHL, the points will come just getting the ice-time at the NHL level.

JV is the type of player that can capitalize on opportunities created by blocked shots, turnovers....etc. Once he shows he can contribute at both ends of the ice, he'll be given a full time opportunity in the top 6.
- golfingsince

Those were games Canucks were trailing in needing to score. So your statement is misleading. What frustrates people posting here is they want him to be playing to score. So if WD isn't doing that they say send him down to learn that.

My point is that showing that at the AHL level doesn't teach you how to do it at the NHL level it just gets you an opportunity if you are defensively sound to play minutes at the NHL level and learn how to do it there.

That's what JV has now so until he learns or there is someone that can do more then him then he's playing the minutes he's getting or being sent down.

My point too, nothing wrong with sending Jake back and forth. Bring him up when there is an opportunity for him to play a scoring role, send him back as needed
- WhiteLie

He does more for the team then just score. But hey he could show more offense on the lines he's on and get more mintutes to be able to produce.

Go 'Nucks!!! (There, just jinxed you bastards lol)
- Flamin_Irishmin

Go Flames!!

Those were games Canucks were trailing in needing to score. So your statement is misleading. What frustrates people posting here is they want him to be playing to score. So if WD isn't doing that they say send him down to learn that.

My point is that showing that at the AHL level doesn't teach you how to do it at the NHL level it just gets you an opportunity if you are defensively sound to play minutes at the NHL level and learn how to do it there.

That's what JV has now so until he learns or there is someone that can do more then him then he's playing the minutes he's getting or being sent down.
- Nuck4U

Jake is unique in that he in an NHLer. If all you wanted from him was to just be on an NHL roster, hes achieved it. He could be 4th line for his entire career as he currently sits, so thats where I think his situation differs from "just getting an NHL opportunity".

The learning curve is smaller going from AHL to NHL, than WHL to NHL (and frankly, he didnt produce much offense when he went to the World Juniors anyways despite his NHL experience), so the scoring touch needs to be developed. He will always get the chance to come back to the NHL, but at this stage in his career the team needs to set him up for the role at which he will play. If you look at the Red Wings model, Tatar and Nyquist were held in the AHL until they had openings in the role they were being groomed for, sent back, and brought back each time

The lockout helped a lot of players, in fact some have argued that maybe that's one of the reason the 2003 draft looks like one of deepest ever.

I agree that Kesler likely would of spent at the very least some of that season in the NHL, especially when you consider he spent ~30 games in the NHL the year before. He also likely would of spent some of that time in the AHL.

Most players do that, they jump back and forth between both leagues as they are learning. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.
- belcherbd

Nothing wrong with it unless the expectation is that JV score the same at NHL like AHL right away which wasn't what Kesler did until years of playing in the NHL.

Perhaps, but if he's as good as you suggest they wouldn't be worrying about Biega and if Pedan went unclaimed you really think Biega gets snagged?
- belcherbd

The worry was not that Biega would necessarily get snagged. Biega is a contingency plan in case Sbisa is for whatever reason unable to play his quota of games to be exposed for the LV draft. If something happened to Sbisa and we didn't have Biega in to play his quota, we would be forced to expose one of our top 4.

Jake is unique in that he in an NHLer. If all you wanted from him was to just be on an NHL roster, hes achieved it. He could be 4th line for his entire career as he currently sits, so thats where I think his situation differs from "just getting an NHL opportunity".

The learning curve is smaller going from AHL to NHL, than WHL to NHL (and frankly, he didnt produce much offense when he went to the World Juniors anyways despite his NHL experience), so the scoring touch needs to be developed. He will always get the chance to come back to the NHL, but at this stage in his career the team needs to set him up for the role at which he will play. If you look at the Red Wings model, Tatar and Nyquist were held in the AHL until they had openings in the role they were being groomed for, sent back, and brought back each time
- WhiteLie

That's the point he's not a skill only scorer who can't stick like Tatar etc unless he produces. He is able to bring other aspects to the NHL game and while playing his minutes learn how to up the offense like Burr, Hanson and Kesler did before him. They were pegged 4th line guy's at the NHL level until they learned to be reliable scorers at the NHL level playing the minutes they got. That's the maturation process and well JV may not get that if other players can do more then what he is able to bring so then he'll be sent to the AHL to bide his time until the next opportunity.