But someone did a detailed complex analysis that says because theoretically very few goals are scored within 10 seconds of a face-off, they don’t matter.

I could have saved those people a lot of time and told them that very few goals are scored within 10 seconds of a face-off.
- Tumbleweed

This guy likes to argue with me about things that could easily be verified with a minimum amount of research because he pretends I am the only person in the world who things this way.

This stems from the bubble mentality where people tend to seek out media and people who confirm what they already think because it makes it easy to then dismiss all challenges out of hand.

The stats say Gardiner is one of the moat effective defensemen in the leauge. It is a serious mystery why he isn't playing more and all I did was posit a reason.

- James_Tanner

Actually, more accurately, there are certain stats that you interpret to say Gardiner is one of the most effective dmen in the league. (let me guess, CorsiRel!)

However logically, Mogan Rielly is their future and they play the same position so that automatically relegates Gardiner to the second pairing .

I can pretty much guarantee you that as the season gets going Gardiner will get second pairing minutes.
- James_Tanner

I can guarantee you it will come as no shock to anyone at all that Gardiner gets second pairing minutes this season.

This guy likes to argue with me about things that could easily be verified with a minimum amount of research because he pretends I am the only person in the world who things this way.

This stems from the bubble mentality where people tend to seek out media and people who confirm what they already think because it makes it easy to then dismiss all challenges out of hand.
- James_Tanner

You seem to be going off on a tangent.

The 10 second convention for judging face-off impact is pretty pointless. Doesn’t prove anything. The inherent flaws in it are pretty obvious.

A better way might be to base it on shot attempt differential from winning/losing a face-off to the next line change vs. game average. Throw-in shot attempts on the PP based on winning/losing a draw.

I find often times, wining/losing a draw can set the tone for an entire shift and there are much better ways of determining the impact of face-offs, rather than arbitrarily judging every face-off on equal value of 10 seconds.

This guy likes to argue with me about things that could easily be verified with a minimum amount of research because he pretends I am the only person in the world who things this way.

This stems from the bubble mentality where people tend to seek out media and people who confirm what they already think because it makes it easy to then dismiss all challenges out of hand.
- James_Tanner

Is that different from the bubble mentality of referencing opinions of fans, and calling those a fact, to support your opinion? Tell me out of the thousands, and thousands of Toronto fans, how many did you poll?

Most of what you state, is not easily verifiable. The conclusion drawn from the statistics you like to use, is not black and white, and requires analysis. That analysis, can often be off base.

This guy likes to argue with me about things that could easily be verified with a minimum amount of research because he pretends I am the only person in the world who things this way.

This stems from the bubble mentality where people tend to seek out media and people who confirm what they already think because it makes it easy to then dismiss all challenges out of hand.
- James_Tanner

Alright James, let's start over:
-You believe winning faceoffs is useless
-Mike Babcock believes it is very important
-Please concisely explain why your opinion is correct and his is wrong.

You seem to be going off on a tangent.

The 10 second convention for judging face-off impact is pretty pointless. Doesn’t prove anything. The inherent flaws in it are pretty obvious.

A better way might be to base it on shot attempt differential from winning/losing a face-off to the next line change vs. game average. Throw-in shot attempts on the PP based on winning/losing a draw.

I find often times, wining/losing a draw can set the tone for an entire shift and there are much better ways of determining the impact of face-offs, rather than arbitrarily judging every face-off on equal value of 10 seconds.
- Tumbleweed

The thing is, the worst team in the NHL at faceoffs can win the Cup, and has. They have no correlation to winning, because at the NHL level you can't be significantly better than anyone else to the level needed to make them matter.

The thing is, the worst team in the NHL at faceoffs can win the Cup, and has. They have no correlation to winning, because at the NHL level you can't be significantly better than anyone else to the level needed to make them matter.
- James_Tanner

Name one team that was the worst team in the NHL at faceoffs, and won the Cup?

Secondly, any informed and knowledgeable fan knows that one faceoff lost, can cost you a key game, such as a playoff game, or a game 7.

The thing is, the worst team in the NHL at faceoffs can win the Cup, and has. They have no correlation to winning, because at the NHL level you can't be significantly better than anyone else to the level needed to make them matter.
- James_Tanner

Interesting. Which team was that?