oh...

you think Juulsen projects higher than Chabot?
- GstrangWondah

No.....i'm not convinced that sergachev is by far the best D prospect. Almost identical numbers is Jr, very siMilan players IMO. maybe your guy will be better, but it's certainly not a slam dunk

Nice try bud... do some research before posting. In 2013 u guys had around 11 to 12 000 season ticket holders vs around 15 000 for habs. Thats not a huge difference if you ask me. The issues about location and all are true, but alas, they don't seem like they'll be going away. To me, the situation looks worrisome but we'll see I guess. You're 11 000 last night looked like some of the season ticket holders (a lot of them) were not even there!!!!

... and, I never talked about moving the team... you seem a little sensitive. My post might have pinched a nerve.!?
- marcandredespatie

That's almost a 40% STH base difference, which is kind of huge (but not suprising based on population, corporate makeup etc), and the location issue WILL be going away at some point in the (hopefully) not too distant future.

If I were you I would worry less about about Ottawa and more about Carey staying as healthy as possible

Even though I'm pretty sure you don't have one, I'm curious what your criteria is for determining a mediocre on ice product given the following...

# Average Wins (adjusted for the partial lockout year)
Past 5yrs: MTL 43 - OTT 40
Past 10yrs : MTL 43 - OTT 40
Past 20yrs: OTT 40 - MTL 39

# Years Missing Playoffs
Past 5yrs: MTL 2 - OTT 2
Past 10yrs : OTT 4 - MTL 3
Past 20yrs: MTL 7 - OTT 5

Head-to-Head Playoff Record:
OTT 1 - MTL 1

Factor in that Ottawa's the only one of these two teams to have made the Cup Finals since the invention of Microsoft Windows, and I wouldn't say there's exactly a massive divide between the two teams' performance over any particular time period of the past 2 decades. In fact, given the financial advantages that the Canadiens have, I'd suggest that it's actually kind of embarrassing that there isn't a more obvious gap in team performance... particularly if the Senators are such a sub-standard franchise.
- khawk

Dude... cupboards are pretty comparable imho...

In terms of D, Sergachev is by far the best prospective Dman between both organizations, though he needs another year to develop. He's widely projected to becoming a top pairing defender. Chabot is your best D prospect coming up and, although I haven't seen him play, I also haven't heard anything promising. Juulsen hasn't played any NHL games, but I'd peg his ceiling as comparable to Chabot, so I think we got you on D (if we didn't fail so hard last year it'd likely be even).

In terms of FWD, McCarron is our best C coming up, though I think he's ultimately going to be a #3C. I liked his game last year, though he needs to develop more offensively. Sens have Colin White and Logan Brown, neither of which have played any NHL games thus far, so jury's still out on those guys. Nevertheless, I think they both have higher ceiling's than McCarron so I'll give you guys the edge on that one.

In terms of age on the roster, according to:
http://www.quanthockey.co...rs-2016-17-nhl-stats.html

Ottawa = 28 years, 10 months, 19 days

Montreal = 27 years, 9 months, 23 days
- GstrangWondah

I saw McCarron play live in pre-season versus my Sens. The man is a beast! Lined up against Brassard, he looked scary. He could be a very solid 3C. I'd also look to put him on the PP in front of the net.

I hope he sucks though, cause you know, Habs suck.

Man, I'm just trilling a troll....I don't disagree with anything you said except that your D prospect projects higher than chabot
- sensarmy_11

Chabot looked good last night, especially with Karlsson at one point. Was that the PP? Can't remember.

I think there is more to the attendance issue than what meets the eye. Neither the Leaf or Canadiens games were sell outs either. So even the fans of those teams stayed home as well. I think we will see a full year of attendance woes with Melnyk crying over his attendance problems and the need for full financial support to move down town.

Teams can move a pile of tickets in the last 24 hours before a game. The fact the Leafs and Canadiens did not sell out suggests people wishing the Sens organization were satisfied with the outcome.

So much poop thrown around for nothing. The attendance was embarrassing and can't be ignored. It's foolish to try and sugarcoat it as most fans do and trash all over it like most Habs and Leaf fans do.

It's too expensive to go to mediocre games during the week for most people. I haven't gone to a game (on my own dime) in years for this reason. The location of the arena doesn't help matters. However, give fans a prime product to watch and people will be more willing to shell out dough.

Not sure why people throw up "season ticket" holders for any team. Go on stub hub and you'll find most of those tickets being resold. it's a worthless figure that gives the franchise a bit of insurance that they will at least have a certain number of tickets sold.

The team would see surge in attendance with a new downtown arena. Anyone who argues otherwise, is just being silly.

Bottom line. Ottawa isn't the biggest sports town in the world. Population around only 1 million who most work for corrupt governments. There are huge fans in this town, but most are just as comfy watching a game at a bar or at home then shelling out a small fortune to see the Coyotes come to town.

Uh...I don't know what stats you're looking at. The Sens are 3-1 this season.

They have outshot their opponent 3/4 times:

42-35 (Arizona)
32-25 (Detroit)
38-24 (Montreal)
30-38 (Toronto)

They have a 2-1 record outshooting their opponent, and are a perfect 1-0 (leafs) when being outshot...

Re: Attendance

Valid points have been made on this topic.

The Sens did nothing exciting this summer other than hire a new coaching staff; one that needed replacing because Dave Cameron was never meant to be a head coach in the NHL, but he was the cheap option at the time. I digress, but the point is that due to constant concern about budget, this team is handcuffed, and have gone stale as an organization. "Win now" for this organization simply means make the first round of the playoffs. This is not something that gets people driving to Kanata. They sold a 2nd round pick for 2 million dollars for God Sake and tried to spin it as shrewd negotiating. Eugene Melnyk is crippling the franchise.

I'll admit the Bell Centre is a raucous crowd but can the typical Habs fan that posts here afford to go? My point being that if you're someone who watches the vast majority of games from home, you can't chirp Sens fans who do the same. Also, not to come off as a Leaf hater, but Scotiabank place is a much more lively atmosphere than the ACC. I've been to games in several arenas across the league and none is quieter than that crowd of mostly corporate stiffs.

Re: Attendance

Valid points have been made on this topic.

The Sens did nothing exciting this summer other than hire a new coaching staff; one that needed replacing because Dave Cameron was never meant to be a head coach in the NHL, but he was the cheap option at the time. I digress, but the point is that due to constant concern about budget, this team is handcuffed, and have gone stale as an organization. "Win now" for this organization simply means make the first round of the playoffs. This is not something that gets people driving to Kanata. They sold a 2nd round pick for 2 million dollars for God Sake and tried to spin it as shrewd negotiating. Eugene Melnyk is crippling the franchise.

I'll admit the Bell Centre is a raucous crowd but can the typical Habs fan that posts here afford to go? My point being that if you're someone who watches the vast majority of games from home, you can't chirp Sens fans who do the same. Also, not to come off as a Leaf hater, but Scotiabank place is a much more lively atmosphere than the ACC. I've been to games in several arenas across the league and none is quieter than that crowd of mostly corporate stiffs.
- AStew86

It is the canadian sport though

my god, going through the leaf thread from that game last night was like watching the most entertaining episode of reality TV ever.....

started off (with leafs up 4-0):

- guys we are so good, we're making the playoffs this year, this team is so far ahead of where most teams are at this point in the rebuild, etc, etc, etc

Jets scored 1 goal:

- whatever guys, we're still awesome, just let our foot off the gas a little, etc, etc

Jets score a couple more:

- god, what's with the media, they just hate everything about the leafs. everyone hates us, it's us against the world.....but matthew's is still WAY better than laine

jets get a PP late:

- man, not only does the media hate us, but now the refs are clearly out to get us too, etc, etc

laine scores to tie it up:

- holy (frank) Andersen sucks, why can't we find a goalie who can save a puck, etc, etc, etc

jets win it in overtime:

- leafs doing leafy things...hey guys, we're still re-building, no worries.....but Andersen still sucks



it was comedic gold to read the roller coaster ride in there last night

LOL. Had to figure when the attendance thread played out, it would get back to the Leafs. Doesn't it always?. Look I follow some of the in game posts of Ottawa games and it's the same thing. All fans can be nuts at times, but with more fans you get more nut jobs.
Leafs are headed for a bottom 10 league rank, most Leaf fans know that.
They are young, talented and they are going blow up a few times this year.
It's part of rebuild process. This is year two.
Have your fun with them ....while you can.

ya ya...
Leafs, Sens, hockey stuff... yada, yada, yada,

Let's talk about something important...

EK girlfriend/wife... whatever she is...

Have you seen her in the latest Halloween pic?

Even though I'm pretty sure you don't have one, I'm curious what your criteria is for determining a mediocre on ice product given the following...

# Average Wins (adjusted for the partial lockout year)
Past 5yrs: MTL 43 - OTT 40
Past 10yrs : MTL 43 - OTT 40
Past 20yrs: OTT 40 - MTL 39

# Years Missing Playoffs
Past 5yrs: MTL 2 - OTT 2
Past 10yrs : OTT 4 - MTL 3
Past 20yrs: MTL 7 - OTT 5

Head-to-Head Playoff Record:
OTT 1 - MTL 1

Factor in that Ottawa's the only one of these two teams to have made the Cup Finals since the invention of Microsoft Windows, and I wouldn't say there's exactly a massive divide between the two teams' performance over any particular time period of the past 2 decades. In fact, given the financial advantages that the Canadiens have, I'd suggest that it's actually kind of embarrassing that there isn't a more obvious gap in team performance... particularly if the Senators are such a sub-standard franchise.
- khawk

Game.Set.Match.

LOL. Had to figure when the attendance thread played out, it would get back to the Leafs. Doesn't it always?. Look I follow some of the in game posts of Ottawa games and it's the same thing. All fans can be nuts at times, but with more fans you get more nut jobs.
Leafs are headed for a bottom 10 league rank, most Leaf fans know that.
They are young, talented and they are going blow up a few times this year.
It's part of rebuild process. This is year two.
Have your fun with them ....while you can.
- JACMAN

1. it never gets THAT bad in here

2. with the amount of trolling that leaf fans do in here you can bet your ass that we, or atleast I, enjoyed the bi-polar display going on in there last night

3. I don't think that "most leaf fans" on this site know that the leafs are heading for a bottom 10 finish........especially not the way that they troll pretty much every thread on this site

1. it never gets THAT bad in here

2. with the amount of trolling that leaf fans do in here you can bet your ass that we, or atleast I, enjoyed the bi-polar display going on in there last night

3. I don't think that "most leaf fans" on this site know that the leafs are heading for a bottom 10 finish........especially not the way that they troll pretty much every thread on this site
- sensarmy_11

There's alot less Sens fans in here, if there was alot more you'd see that kind of bullpoop pretty often. Alot of times its poster you never even see posting that do that during the game, I rarely post during the game anyway. Most leaf fans do know this is going to be a bottom 10 team, everything goes right maybe they're better but I can't see that happening.

I just posted this in Tanner's blog, but I figured I would put it here too:

As a Sens fan, I will give you a quick breakdown about the 11K fans.

There is no market in the NHL like Ottawa. People try to compare Ottawa to Winnipeg or other small markets but it just doesn't work.

Here's the deal. There are lots of rabid Sens fans in this city. There are also lots of rabid hockey fans in this city. Ottawa truly is 'hockey country'. There is no doubt about that.

The problem? All the rabid Sens fans are under 40. All the fans that live and breathe Sens hockey are young. There are very few 50 yr old diehards.

IF they are over 40 and are diehard hockey fans, they are fans of other teams. These are people who already had a favourite team when the Sens came to town and because they are such diehard fans, they didn't switch teams. There are fans of almost every single team in the NHL in Ottawa, with the vast majority of non-Sens fans being Leafs and Habs fans obviously.

So what are the Sens left with of the over 40 crowd?

Fair-weather fans. People who complain about traffic. People who complain about the building. People who won't go when it snows. People who won't go on a Tuesday when the Jays are playing, against Arizona. Just like fair-weather golfers, the vast majority of fans (over 40) in Ottawa will find any excuse they can not to go to the game.

It's very hard to have a fanbase that are all young and can't afford to go to as many games as they would like.

From 2000-2008, people came and the building was sold out, because Ottawa had an elite team. Hockey fans, not just Sens fans, wanted to go to the games cause the team was damn exciting. The fair-weather fans wanted to go all the time, cause the product was great, and like a sunny 25C day, they want to hit the course.

Now that there have been some lean years, those fair-weather fans, as well as hockey fans who are fans of other teams, aren't going as much. For 5 or so years after they started struggling, Melnyk was giving away freebees and 2 for 1s to keep the appearance that there was still great support. It was a sham. He stopped doing it three years ago and we can see the results in the stands.

To top it off, Ottawa is a gov't town. The #1 employer in Ottawa is the Federal gov't. They can't buy tickets. The corporate base is not as big as ANY other city in the NHL. That means less corporate tickets and suites bought. That means way less promotional season's tickets.

Anyone who says there aren't hockey fans in Ottawa is an idiot. Anyone who says there aren't diehard Sens fans in Ottawa is an idiot. The problem is the diehards are too young to spend that much money on their team and the hockey fans that are old enough to shell out the dough, are either fans of other teams or not really Sens fans at all (fair-weather).

I just posted this in Tanner's blog, but I figured I would put it here too:

As a Sens fan, I will give you a quick breakdown about the 11K fans.


To top it off, Ottawa is a gov't town. The #1 employer in Ottawa is the Federal gov't. They can't buy tickets. The corporate base is not as big as ANY other city in the NHL. That means less corporate tickets and suites bought. That means way less promotional season's tickets.


- Charliebox

the point about gvt is BY FAR the most important reason the sens building isn't as packed as some others. I would be confident in saying that probably 40-50% of season tickets in places like Toronto, montreal, Vancouver, new York, etc, etc are corporate season tickets.........you just aren't going to get that in a city where either the federal/provincial/or municipal government account for like 50% of the work force.

Ottawa probably relies on walk-up ticket sales more than any other team in the league.

the point about gvt is BY FAR the most important reason the sens building isn't as packed as some others. I would be confident in saying that probably 40-50% of season tickets in places like Toronto, montreal, Vancouver, new York, etc, etc are corporate season tickets.........you just aren't going to get that in a city where either the federal/provincial/or municipal government account for like 50% of the work force.

Ottawa probably relies on walk-up ticket sales more than any other team in the league.
- sensarmy_11

I actually think it's my first point more than the corporate stuff. Sure, the corporate angle is a factor, but I also think many of the owners of these corporations just aren't Sens fans. And more importantly, most of their high paying clients (who are also over 40) aren't Sens fans either.

I'm 36 an in my group of friends there are fans of all teams. Sure, the majority are Sens fans (I was in grade 6 when the Sens came to town), but even in my age group there are lots of Leaf fans and Habs fans. In the over 40 crowd, most diehard hockey fans I know, are actually NOT Sens fans. Sure, I know many that call themselves Sens fans, but on the scale of fandom, they are pretty damn low. These people don't watch every game (or even a majority of games) and sometimes don't even know the full roster.

This is not true in any other Canadian city.

In my opinion, they rely on walkups because those of us under 40 can't afford season's tickets and buy game to game (and can get better deals online in most cases) And those who are over 40 are fair-weather fans and they decide on game day if they really want to go or not.

I actually think it's my first point more than the corporate stuff. Sure, the corporate angle is a factor, but I also think many of the owners of these corporations just aren't Sens fans. And more importantly, most of their high paying clients (who are also over 40) aren't Sens fans either.

I'm 36 an in my group of friends there are fans of all teams. Sure, the majority are Sens fans (I was in grade 6 when the Sens came to town), but even in my age group there are lots of Leaf fans and Habs fans. In the over 40 crowd, most diehard hockey fans I know, are actually NOT Sens fans. Sure, I know many that call themselves Sens fans, but on the scale of fandom, they are pretty damn low. These people don't watch every game (or even a majority of games) and sometimes don't even know the full roster.

This is not true in any other Canadian city.

In my opinion, they rely on walkups because those of us under 40 can't afford season's tickets and buy game to game (and can get better deals online in most cases) And those who are over 40 are fair-weather fans and they decide on game day if they really want to go or not.
- Charliebox

companies don't buy corporate season tickets because they're fans....they buy them for their employees, or their customers, or because it's a cool place to have a business meeting.

have you ever been to a game at the ACC in Toronto.....look at the lower bowl, half the people down there aren't even watching the game, they're business people who are there basically working...they're either on their phones, or talking business with the clients they bought to the game. my brothers company has season tix to the leafs so I've been to a few games in the lower bowl there....it's almost ridiculous

I actually think it's my first point more than the corporate stuff. Sure, the corporate angle is a factor, but I also think many of the owners of these corporations just aren't Sens fans. And more importantly, most of their high paying clients (who are also over 40) aren't Sens fans either.

I'm 36 an in my group of friends there are fans of all teams. Sure, the majority are Sens fans (I was in grade 6 when the Sens came to town), but even in my age group there are lots of Leaf fans and Habs fans. In the over 40 crowd, most diehard hockey fans I know, are actually NOT Sens fans. Sure, I know many that call themselves Sens fans, but on the scale of fandom, they are pretty damn low. These people don't watch every game (or even a majority of games) and sometimes don't even know the full roster.

This is not true in any other Canadian city.

In my opinion, they rely on walkups because those of us under 40 can't afford season's tickets and buy game to game (and can get better deals online in most cases) And those who are over 40 are fair-weather fans and they decide on game day if they really want to go or not.
- Charliebox

I have so many habs friends that only go to habs games because it is the trendy thing to do in Montreal! They'll have their habs jersey/t-shirt but if you ask them to name a roster player other then Price or Subban (back then), they have no clue who plays for them; not even able to name who is their captain...They go to games and spend the majority of the time drinking, taking pics and playing on their phone...they'll say they're habs fans but they don't know their place in the standings, don't know who the GM is or know when is the last time they won a cup! ok, well some is cause they were kids the last time the habs won a cup but the 1 thing they know is the amount of cups they've won in their history...