When he actually played, he played pretty well.

For whatever reason Babcock hated Kindl.
- TwoPieceFeed

I always liked kindl as well but that's part of the problem. You can't sign deals like these if the coach isn't going to play them.

Bad contracts on roster: abdelkader, helm, dekeyser, ericsson, kronwall, howard, nielsen, zetterberg, glendening, miller, ott, franzen
- Feds91Stammer

No.

From everything that I hear from other fan-bases, also no. (Quotes are italicized; Ott)

I always liked kindl as well but that's part of the problem. You can't sign deals like these if the coach isn't going to play them.
- Feds91Stammer

That's what makes it a coaching fail and not a GM/contract fail. I'm surprised that Florida isn't playing him (especially since Campbell is gone).

Anyone who has followed my posts knows I love details, but sometimes in a case like this I think it's easy to miss the forest for the trees. So let's keep it simple and big-picture:

1. The Detroit Red Wings are, at best, a bubble team. I don't think anyone here, including the staunchest Holland defenders, would disagree with that assessment.

2. The Detroit Red Wings are currently $5.5 million OVER the salary cap, with so little LTIR wiggle room that they couldn't even call up Mantha at this point if they wanted to without another long-term injury or waiving Ott.

3. The Detroit Red Wings ALREADY have $69 million locked up for 16 players on the current roster for next year, at $51 million for 10 players the year after that.

We can argue until we're blue in the face about every last individual player on this roster, and every last move Holland has made in the last 10 years. There's going to be plenty of reasonable disagreement on almost every point.

But in the end it's the big picture we should be concerned with, and the big picture is that the Red Wings are paying a ton of money over the next three years for a team that isn't very good. Looking at the forest instead of the trees, I think it's pretty clear Holland has done a poor job overall at getting good value for his cap dollars, regardless of which individual contracts of his you like and which ones you don't like.

No.

From everything that I hear from other fan-bases, also no. (Quotes are italicized; Ott)
- TwoPieceFeed

Those are terrible deals. No other way to put it.

Anyone who has followed my posts knows I love details, but sometimes in a case like this I think it's easy to miss the forest for the trees. So let's keep it simple and big-picture:

1. The Detroit Red Wings are, at best, a bubble team. I don't think anyone here, including the staunchest Holland defenders, would disagree with that assessment.

2. The Detroit Red Wings are currently $5.5 million OVER the salary cap, with so little LTIR wiggle room that they couldn't even call up Mantha at this point if they wanted to without another long-term injury or waiving Ott.

3. The Detroit Red Wings ALREADY have $69 million locked up for 16 players on the current roster for next year, at $51 million for 10 players the year after that.

We can argue until we're blue in the face about every last individual player on this roster, and every last move Holland has made in the last 10 years. There's going to be plenty of reasonable disagreement on almost every point.

But in the end it's the big picture we should be concerned with, and the big picture is that the Red Wings are paying a ton of money over the next three years for a team that isn't very good. Looking at the forest instead of the trees, I think it's pretty clear Holland has done a poor job overall at getting good value for his cap dollars, regardless of which individual contracts of his you like and which ones you don't like.
- Sven22

That is $69m locked up with a big Tatar deal looming.

That is $69m locked up with a big Tatar deal looming.
- Feds91Stammer

He has to have a productive season to earn that deal. He hasn't looked bad through 3 games, but he has to be better.

He has to have a productive season to earn that deal. He hasn't looked bad through 3 games, but he has to be better.
- TwoPieceFeed

Honest question. What would you consider a productive season?

Over the past 2 seasons Tatar leads current full time roster players in goals, goals per 60, points per 60, and primary points per 60. What else does he need to do?

Honest question. What would you consider a productive season?
- Feds91Stammer

Productive for Tatar would be 25 goals and 50 points. He has to build on last season's stats.

Blashill knows he held Tatar (and Nyquist) back last year. He has said that they'll be given more ice time, like they had in 2015, when they put up good offensive totals.

IMO Tatar should be looking to have a career year if he receives that verbally promised ice time. 30 goals and 60 points would show that he's continuing to develop as a player in this league. He's already a very good two-way guy and he has some great skills.

Productive for Tatar would be 25 goals and 50 points. He has to build on last season's stats.

Blashill knows he held Tatar (and Nyquist) back last year. He has said that they'll be given more ice time, like they had in 2015, when they put up good offensive totals.

IMO Tatar should be looking to have a career year if he receives that verbally promised ice time. 30 goals and 60 points would show that he's continuing to develop as a player in this league. He's already a very good two-way guy and he has some great skills.
- TwoPieceFeed

If given Zetterberg's TOI over the past 2 seasons this is what Tatar would have averaged per his rate stats.

30.5 Goals, 31.3 Assists, 61.8 Points

The only players with 60+ goals and 120+ points over the past 2 seasons: ALEX.OVECHKIN
JAMIE.BENN
JOE.PAVELSKI
JOHN.TAVARES
MAX.PACIORETTY
PATRICK.KANE
SIDNEY.CROSBY
STEVEN.STAMKOS
TYLER.SEGUIN
VLADIMIR.TARASENKO


Tatar is in the group of 35 skaters that have 50+ goals and 100+ points in that span.

If given Zetterberg's TOI over the past 2 seasons this is what Tatar would have averaged per his rate stats.

30.5 Goals, 31.3 Assists, 61.8 Points
- Feds91Stammer

Just curious -- are you running separate calculations for ES and PP time? If you're using ES rates for total ice time it stands to reason that Tatar's projected totals would be even higher than that.

Just curious -- are you running separate calculations for ES and PP time? If you're using ES rates for total ice time it stands to reason that Tatar's projected totals would be even higher than that.
- Sven22

Just lumped all together didn't separate them. All situation rates times Z's total time on ice.

Just lumped all together didn't separate them. All situation rates times Z's total time on ice.
- Feds91Stammer

I'm sure that works well enough as a quick approximation, especially since both regularly played the PP all year. Still, the all situation rate would be slightly inflated or deflated depending on which guy had a higher PP TOI / Overall TOI ratio.

EDIT: Of course, splitting it out introduces some noise due to reducing the size of the sample, so if we wanted to be all fancy we could construct some kind of adjustment function using the all situation rates. But hey, the point stands -- Tatar is really good and should get more minutes.

Zetterberg should be a 3rd line player in the last 5 years of his contract, the wings are accumulating all these players that are 3 Rd line players making 5 plus mil for extended years. It's not going to work.

If you think a player is going to be good for 3 more years you offer him a 3-4 year deal not 5-6 year deal where he's being way over paid and not playing a high paying role for the last 2-3 years. The thought that you sign franzen and zetterberg to deals that have them playing till there 40 at a 6 mill cap it is terrible managing. If guys want to leave let them leave other teams will choke on the contracts. The first thing shanahan did when he got to Toronto was get rid of all the contracts that Toronto had similar to the wings.

This style of play is to defensive and there not even good at it.
Ps mantha on tear to start season, goals that should be going to the wings.

If his offensive skills are ready which they are than he should be playing. Said this before stop trying to change players from what makes them that player. In order to develop into an nhl player you have to play in the nhl.
if your a smart gm bertuzzi and Callahan are playing on your 4th line this season with glendenning.