Nice dodge. Like I said and you ignored, paying Lindholm 7 or 8 million is the "layup". I'll take my chances with the "tire fire" (which hopefully is 6M or less).
- quackup

Thanks, - No the tire fire is what we have now - no 47 or 67 with no end in sight and the possibility of trading them uugghhh .. and imo he is worth 7 or even 8... as for the rest of the young D not being him yet.. or maybe never .. didn't you say his underlying corsi is basically equivalent to AE - - those 3 other kids are not even remotely close to being as good as he is now.. if ever - and he is only 22 and getting better .. at 7 he will be underpaid in 3 yrs - I don't see 47 coming in anywhere under 7 - Man I hope and pray I'm wrong and Wednesday he is in the lineup .. but I doubt it - and you well know the longer this goes the worse it becomes - that's why I was so bent it didn't get done when they had the money earlier this summer -

and imo he is worth 7 or even 8... -
- dozerD10

And that is why you are not an NHL GM. He is good, but why give away the farm now. I say they offer him a bridge deal and let him prove that he is consistently good.

You might want to see a Dr. and get some valium for that anxiety. Relax, it's just a game that you have no control over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJLqVgcl1U

that helmet spin tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJLqVgcl1U

that helmet spin tho
- getzlaugh

Good to see Boll giving it to Maroon. I'm a hater on Maroon, because he could be a 20 goal guy, but too often would lose focus and turn into a skating minor penalty. Although he did look leaner there than when he was with the Ducks. Could turn into a deja vu Penner senerio where his weight and lack of focus becomes too glaring a problem. Boll's had a couple preseason bouts. The guy he fought against LA was a big dude. Sure it was a loss, but it's still preseason. This team has a few YOLO, DGAF, hate me all you want guys, which is why I'm a fan. Get Perry, Manson, Boll, Kesler, Garbutt or Bieksa wriled up and watch out!

Anyways, the season starts in 6 days against the Dallas Stars followed up by the Pittsburgh Penguins. I'm going to assume Rakell and Lindholm won't be in the lineup. I'll get into that during my next paragraph. Dallas is a strong group. The way I see it, they're looking at their WCF matchup followed by the SCF right out of the gate. Carlyle wants results from the get go, and he's expecting a 2-0 start to the season. The instant Dallas is comfortable it's game over. You have to harass teams like Dallas from the puck drop if you want to have a chance. As far as Pittsburgh goes, for the past 6-7 years Getzlaf and Crosby bark it up in the first, and then they're friends by the third; only after having "it" handed to them on a silver platter. I swear, if I see starry-eyed Ducks letting Sidney have a hay day I'm going to be furious. All 18 player must be in harass mode without drawing penalties. This team better learn to play in the grey, because it was the 12 minors in games 1 and 2 to Nashville that lost them that series. Only losers blame referees.

As far as the contract situation with the Swedes goes. I've thought a lot about it, and I full support management playing hard ball. As a budget team, drafting and developing prospects is going to be the measurement of sustainable success. If Lindholm was an UFA he could fetch 7 mil, but he's not. The most this team has ever paid a RFA is Perry, Getzlaf and Ryan who saw a 5 mil AVV. The past couple of years agents have gotten their way with having RFAs get paid UFA dollars. Looking at the prospect pool in San Diego management must use the RFA limitations to their benefit those two players cap hit. Leverage.

Thanks, - No the tire fire is what we have now - no 47 or 67 with no end in sight and the possibility of trading them uugghhh .. and imo he is worth 7 or even 8... as for the rest of the young D not being him yet.. or maybe never .. didn't you say his underlying corsi is basically equivalent to AE - - those 3 other kids are not even remotely close to being as good as he is now.. if ever - and he is only 22 and getting better .. at 7 he will be underpaid in 3 yrs - I don't see 47 coming in anywhere under 7 - Man I hope and pray I'm wrong and Wednesday he is in the lineup .. but I doubt it - and you well know the longer this goes the worse it becomes - that's why I was so bent it didn't get done when they had the money earlier this summer -
- dozerD10

If Murray had signed Lindholm for that amount "when he had the money" there would be no chance of signing Rakell and no chance of adding a LW and no chance of adding a 4th line center, not to mention Vatanen would have gone to arbitration and received a max 2 year deal. It seems like you don't realize that your plan has the Ducks dressing only 20 skaters for each game, 8 of which are defensemen. Better to do it the way Murray has, although he missed out on the LW, and get the better depth players when they are available. Rakell and Lindholm can't sign with another team, they are guaranteed to be available when Murray has the cap space. There is absolutely zero risk in waiting to sign Rakell and Lindholm. That wasn't the case for Raymond and Vermette and Vatanen. Your idea of management is literally to sacrifice the team for one player. Once he makes a trade, those guys WILL get signed and the team WILL look better than anything that would have been put together if Lindholm had been signed in June.

If Murray had signed Lindholm for that amount "when he had the money" there would be no chance of signing Rakell and no chance of adding a LW and no chance of adding a 4th line center, not to mention Vatanen would have gone to arbitration and received a max 2 year deal. It seems like you don't realize that your plan has the Ducks dressing only 20 skaters for each game, 8 of which are defensemen. Better to do it the way Murray has, although he missed out on the LW, and get the better depth players when they are available. Rakell and Lindholm can't sign with another team, they are guaranteed to be available when Murray has the cap space. There is absolutely zero risk in waiting to sign Rakell and Lindholm. That wasn't the case for Raymond and Vermette and Vatanen. Your idea of management is literally to sacrifice the team for one player. Once he makes a trade, those guys WILL get signed and the team WILL look better than anything that would have been put together if Lindholm had been signed in June.
- sniper11

Well he doesn't have a quality LW now - or a 4th line center or 47 -
and they are not guaranteed to be available they can play in Sweden or the KHL - and players like 47 don't just fall off trees - he makes everyone he plays with better - not a little bit but by a large amount -
zero risk huh ... well perhaps you're right - and paying him what he is worth is not sacrificing the team - if Kes is worth 6.8 for 6 more yrs at his age -47 is worth north of 7 at his age - that's not even debatable -

And that is why you are not an NHL GM. He is good, but why give away the farm now. I say they offer him a bridge deal and let him prove that he is consistently good.

You might want to see a Dr. and get some valium for that anxiety. Relax, it's just a game that you have no control over.
- ducks31

He won't take a bridge - and he is much better than good -

He won't take a bridge - and he is much better than good -
- dozerD10

You're a "right fighter". I get that you. You have to be right. That's fine. Maybe one day when you're responsible for running a business, or have a payroll you need to budget, you'll understand.

Well he doesn't have a quality LW now - or a 4th line center or 47 -
and they are not guaranteed to be available they can play in Sweden or the KHL - and players like 47 don't just fall off trees - he makes everyone he plays with better - not a little bit but by a large amount -
zero risk huh ... well perhaps you're right - and paying him what he is worth is not sacrificing the team - if Kes is worth 6.8 for 6 more yrs at his age -47 is worth north of 7 at his age - that's not even debatable -
- dozerD10

Nobody said he was. Kopitar isn't worth his 8yr/10M per starting this year (and he's 29) either. The difference is with Kesler and Kopitar, their respective teams didn't have anyone remotely close to them in ability to step in and replace them. Notice I didn't say as good. I said remotely close to them as good. And both players have demonstrated over a significant period of time consistent production that can't be replaced.

As good as 47 is, he hasn't proven himself over the course of 6 or 7 years. His scoring isn't anything to write home about. He's never been in the conversation for the Norris at the end of the year. Yet you somehow think he's worth 7M a year. It's absurd. I would argue (as I've stated before) Rakell is more important to the team right now. The organization has zero depth to cover for Rakell. If Lindholm left, while we might not be as good, we'll still be competitive with Theodore, Montour and Larsson available to step in.

We can agree to disagree. I'm done with the discussion on my end.

Nobody said he was. Kopitar isn't worth his 8yr/10M per starting this year (and he's 29) either. The difference is with Kesler and Kopitar, their respective teams didn't have anyone remotely close to them in ability to step in and replace them. Notice I didn't say as good. I said remotely close to them as good. And both players have demonstrated over a significant period of time consistent production that can't be replaced.

As good as 47 is, he hasn't proven himself over the course of 6 or 7 years. His scoring isn't anything to write home about. He's never been in the conversation for the Norris at the end of the year. Yet you somehow think he's worth 7M a year. It's absurd. I would argue (as I've stated before) Rakell is more important to the team right now. The organization has zero depth to cover for Rakell. If Lindholm left, while we might not be as good, we'll still be competitive with Theodore, Montour and Larsson available to step in.

We can agree to disagree. I'm done with the discussion on my end.
- quackup

Going to the Norris argument - I like it - Hopefully he gets signed soon -

Nobody said he was. Kopitar isn't worth his 8yr/10M per starting this year (and he's 29) either. The difference is with Kesler and Kopitar, their respective teams didn't have anyone remotely close to them in ability to step in and replace them. Notice I didn't say as good. I said remotely close to them as good. And both players have demonstrated over a significant period of time consistent production that can't be replaced.

As good as 47 is, he hasn't proven himself over the course of 6 or 7 years. His scoring isn't anything to write home about. He's never been in the conversation for the Norris at the end of the year. Yet you somehow think he's worth 7M a year. It's absurd. I would argue (as I've stated before) Rakell is more important to the team right now. The organization has zero depth to cover for Rakell. If Lindholm left, while we might not be as good, we'll still be competitive with Theodore, Montour and Larsson available to step in.

We can agree to disagree. I'm done with the discussion on my end.
- quackup

Kopitar is worth every penny of his contact if you look at the cash value rather than the cap hit. It is very heavily front loaded. He is worth the $14M he is making now, and in 8 years, he will still be worth the $7M he will be making. Will he be worth $10M in 2022, probably not, but he won't be making that much.

I won't go into arguing the merits of how good Kopitar is. Gretzky says he's the 3rd best player in the world, and I'm inclined to agree.

Kopitar is worth every penny of his contact if you look at the cash value rather than the cap hit. It is very heavily front loaded. He is worth the $14M he is making now, and in 8 years, he will still be worth the $7M he will be making. Will he be worth $10M in 2022, probably not, but he won't be making that much.

I won't go into arguing the merits of how good Kopitar is. Gretzky says he's the 3rd best player in the world, and I'm inclined to agree.
- tkecanuck341

I'm addressing the cap hit only, since it's the cap that determines how much money a team has to spend.

I'm addressing the cap hit only, since it's the cap that determines how much money a team has to spend.
- quackup

Understood. However, the Kings couldn't afford a $14M cap hit this year, so they mitigated it by giving longer term with less money in later years. That's how cap era hockey works.

Understood. However, the Kings couldn't afford a $14M cap hit this year, so they mitigated it by giving longer term with less money in later years. That's how cap era hockey works.
- tkecanuck341

I guess I don't understand the argument here. I understand front loaded/back loaded contracts, but they're meaningless. The only figure that matters is the cap hit for that contract. Period. The current team cap is 73M, of which Kopitar costs 10M of that 73. Even if his actual salary 8 years from now is 2M (or whatever the # is), his cap hit is still going to be 10M. Time will tell if he's worth THE CAP HIT.

I guess I don't understand the argument here. I understand front loaded/back loaded contracts, but they're meaningless. The only figure that matters is the cap hit for that contract. Period. The current team cap is 73M, of which Kopitar costs 10M of that 73. Even if his actual salary 8 years from now is 2M (or whatever the # is), his cap hit is still going to be 10M. Time will tell if he's worth THE CAP HIT.
- quackup

As a fan of a team, I agree that CAP HITS are what matter most. Not really sure why people care how much "real" money players are making. Ok, so maybe other owners can't afford to pay a guy 15mil per year or whatever for trade purposes. GMs work with budgets, not actual money the player is paid yearly.

I guess I don't understand the argument here. I understand front loaded/back loaded contracts, but they're meaningless. The only figure that matters is the cap hit for that contract. Period. The current team cap is 73M, of which Kopitar costs 10M of that 73. Even if his actual salary 8 years from now is 2M (or whatever the # is), his cap hit is still going to be 10M. Time will tell if he's worth THE CAP HIT.
- quackup

You said Kopitar wasn't worth his contract. I said Kopitar is worth every penny of his contract. A lot of people argue that the contract was a bad idea because Kopitar won't still be worth $10M/season in 2022. My counter argument is that yes, that is probably true, but he is worth much more than $10M/season now. So when it comes to the cap hit, we get a bargain for 4 years, and we have to overpay for 4 years. That doesn't make it a bad contract, that makes it the nature of salary cap era hockey.

You said Kopitar wasn't worth his contract. I said Kopitar is worth every penny of his contract. A lot of people argue that the contract was a bad idea because Kopitar won't still be worth $10M/season in 2022. My counter argument is that yes, that is probably true, but he is worth much more than $10M/season now. So when it comes to the cap hit, we get a bargain for 4 years, and we have to overpay for 4 years. That doesn't make it a bad contract, that makes it the nature of salary cap era hockey.
- tkecanuck341

He's worth it

Kopi is a monster. Worth more than he's paid.

BTW so is Kesler but everyone thinks that's a horrible contract.

Ducks looking pretty good those last two games albeit against SJ's scrubs, but I think we'll be really happy with this team once Raks gets signed and Lindy stops being so greedy. Bernier has been solid as a rock too. I wonder what they're gonna do with Larsson, it would be a shame to lose him for the whole year to Sweden. He outlasted Theo and Montour, but that could just be a contract thing. He's looked just fine. We can't trade Fowler, he's blossoming and his contract will be a steal for 2 more years. Lose Stoner, lose Despres, see if you can get Holzer into the AHL, and if not, not a huge loss, although I like the guy.

That leaves:
Lindholm-Manson
Fowler-Vats
Theodore-Bieksa
Larsson
Montour

Pretty stacked and no need to trade anyone that's important. Let's go ahead and have a ridiculous Defense for a couple years while we can afford it.

You said Kopitar wasn't worth his contract. I said Kopitar is worth every penny of his contract. A lot of people argue that the contract was a bad idea because Kopitar won't still be worth $10M/season in 2022. My counter argument is that yes, that is probably true, but he is worth much more than $10M/season now. So when it comes to the cap hit, we get a bargain for 4 years, and we have to overpay for 4 years. That doesn't make it a bad contract, that makes it the nature of salary cap era hockey.
- tkecanuck341

And that's where I disagree. I get being enamored with a player, I do. But a good contract is one that is reasonable for the entire length of such contract. The Kings were in a no win with Kopitar, they had to give him the $ or he walks. They're going to be in the same predicament with Doughty in about 3 years. Unless the cap doubles, you have to stand back, be realistic, and I would think consider having Kopitar with a 10M cap hit, Doughty with a 10M cap hit (not unrealistic) going forward is devastating to the team. When Brown signed his contract, I'm sure at the time it was considered fair. For what Kopitar brings to the team, yes, he's worth every penny he's making, but that doesn't mean it isn't hurting the team cap structure going forward. Sure it is. I agree though, that is the "nature of salary cap era hockey." That's why drafting and cultivating young talent is so valuable to a franchise. In a perfect world, you have players ready to step in that are affordable should you decide to let a veteran walk (or better yet, trade).

And that's where I disagree. I get being enamored with a player, I do. But a good contract is one that is reasonable for the entire length of such contract. The Kings were in a no win with Kopitar, they had to give him the $ or he walks. They're going to be in the same predicament with Doughty in about 3 years. Unless the cap doubles, you have to stand back, be realistic, and I would think consider having Kopitar with a 10M cap hit, Doughty with a 10M cap hit (not unrealistic) going forward is devastating to the team. When Brown signed his contract, I'm sure at the time it was considered fair. For what Kopitar brings to the team, yes, he's worth every penny he's making, but that doesn't mean it isn't hurting the team cap structure going forward. Sure it is. I agree though, that is the "nature of salary cap era hockey." That's why drafting and cultivating young talent is so valuable to a franchise. In a perfect world, you have players ready to step in that are affordable should you decide to let a veteran walk (or better yet, trade).
- quackup

I don't disagree that money will be tight in the organization in a few years when Doughty gets his raise, and it will likely force the Kings to walk away from some good players and go with younger talent on ELC contracts. Kinda like Chicago has been doing for the past couple years.

That doesn't mean that Kopitar isn't worth his contract. That doesn't mean Doughty won't be worth his contract. I personally think Doughty's contract will be closer to $11-12M rather than $10M, and again, he will be worth every penny. You build your core (Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick) and then you bring in supplemental players around them. However they are all expendable. Will it be difficult, yes. Is it the wrong way to go, absolutely not. There are maybe 3 players in the entire league that I would consider trading Kopitar for (Crosby, Toews, McDavid). I wouldn't trade Doughty for anyone. I wouldn't trade Quick for anyone not named Carey Price.

tl;dr: Yes, the Kings will have cap difficulties going forward. Those difficulties do not mean that Kopitar is not worth his $8/80M as you claimed.

I don't disagree that money will be tight in the organization in a few years when Doughty gets his raise, and it will likely force the Kings to walk away from some good players and go with younger talent on ELC contracts. Kinda like Chicago has been doing for the past couple years.

That doesn't mean that Kopitar isn't worth his contract. That doesn't mean Doughty won't be worth his contract. I personally think Doughty's contract will be closer to $11-12M rather than $10M, and again, he will be worth every penny. You build your core (Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick) and then you bring in supplemental players around them. However they are all expendable. Will it be difficult, yes. Is it the wrong way to go, absolutely not. There are maybe 3 players in the entire league that I would consider trading Kopitar for (Crosby, Toews, McDavid). I wouldn't trade Doughty for anyone. I wouldn't trade Quick for anyone not named Carey Price.

tl;dr: Yes, the Kings will have cap difficulties going forward. Those difficulties do not mean that Kopitar is not worth his $8/80M as you claimed.
- tkecanuck341

He'll be 29 starting an 8yr deal if UFA rules don't change, and you think he'll be worth a 12M per CAP HIT. OK. We can agree to disagree. If he was 25 or 26 starting that deal, maybe, but not at 29. But we're all armchair GM's.

He'll be 29 starting an 8yr deal if UFA rules don't change, and you think he'll be worth a 12M per CAP HIT. OK. We can agree to disagree. If he was 25 or 26 starting that deal, maybe, but not at 29. But we're all armchair GM's.
- quackup

Doughty is the best defenseman in the NHL. Even if he slows down a bit into his mid-thirties, he will still be better than most teams' #1 defenseman. It will likely be structured similarly to Kopitar's contract, with a couple $16M seasons up front, tapering down to $8M in years 7/8. If Kopitar gets a NHL leading contract at age 29, (his cash salary is tops in the NHL this season), then I don't see why Doughty doesn't get one too.

great hockey name!! shít defensemen, but great name